Fatwa + Politics = Read This Thread for Entertainment

Fatwa Profile Options #1

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Qoute Lvl.1
Valley of Titans (PVP)
Popori Warrior
Greetings, many of you know me, for those of you who do not - I’m a rather informed individual who has actively been around the TERA community for more than a few years. Attempts to derail this thread through stupidity, attempted personal attacks, and flamebaiting will be dealt with in a decisive manner. Many have tried to do that to my posts, all have failed to gain from it. In short, don’t waste your time, I’m better at it than you.

The timing of this thread may be viewed as odd. I have been sitting on it for a number of weeks, waiting and watching to see if folks came through with their promises. Most recently, I contacted Oloh of Nagafen prior to the release of his article, roughly outlining my stance. My intention of contacting Oloh was to make this post with the possibility of one guild ready to embrace the challenge, and he seemed like the likeliest of candidates. Unfortunately, the release of his column has forced me to restructure and release this thread on a different timetable. In short, this thread was not spawned from the column, nor from Oloh.

Unfortunately, due to the timing of discussions, this is actually a slightly edited rough draft, rather than the complete piece. I'm not happy with the result, but with the ongoing discussions - the time to post was now, not later.


Background

I’ve spent the first two iterations of the election cycle observing interactions and compiling information. I’ve watched the birth of our server, the momentary elation at playing TERA without level restriction, and the subsequent burnout from exaggerated expectations. I’ve seen guilds form, wither, and die. I’ve seen staunch supporters flee from what they feel is a burning wreck doomed to collapse under its own weight. I’ve seen guilds call out challenges that went unheard, and responses that deafened the challenger. I’ve seen cowards flee the server to what they feel is a less spotlight prone environment, I’ve seen attention-seekers clamor for the spotlight we provide here.

I’ve also seen a variety of folks claiming to care about the health of the server, and the community we have here. However, for the most part, very little has been done to support the server or the community outside of a few exceptions. Therefore, I’m making this post as a challenge to those who claim to care about the server and its health.

Prior to the release of the game it was clear to see that there were roughly two camps of PvPers - those who preferred the numbers game, and those who wanted quality over quantity. Generally, during beta phase those who preferred numbers ended up on Valley of Titans, those who sought other things ended up on Jagged Coast. It was our first chance to test our mettle against a variety of guilds who up until that point, had been nothing but posturing and bravado on the forums. Some guilds survived, others fell apart under the scrutiny. It was clear to those involved that for PvP to be enjoyable, you needed quality guilds to fight against. Rolling folks who didn’t take things to the same level as you got old in rather quick fashion, and those guilds who preferred to abuse specific mechanics made fights less enjoyable (safe zone healing!).

As a result of what we learned during the Beta phase, a number of medium-to-small guilds banded together to create a core community for PvP. We coordinated our server selection - with specific intent to avoid the ‘zerg’ mentality found on some other PvP servers via Skype. We committed ourselves to fostering an environment rife with political intrigue and pvp action. We told ourselves that no matter the outcome, we’d continue to foster a healthy PvP environment with the hopes that it would attract others like moths to a flame. That the pillage mentality found on other servers would be unhealthy in the long run, resulting in ‘flash-in-the-pan’ style guilds that die out within the first few months. We knew it would be hard, we knew that it was a risk, but we stuck with the plan and collectively rolled on Basilisk Crag.

I mentioned earlier that we, as guild leaders, bore partial responsibility for a few things. That core PvP group failed in its mission, and it failed itself. Met with larger communities that were more intent on leveling than PvP, we fractured. In hindsight, the obvious course of action would have been to declare on each other, as we all knew that we wanted to PvP. However, we didn’t do that. Instead, there were continual attempts to bring the larger communities into the PvP scene, and for the most part - that didn’t happen. As a result, no less than two prominent guilds disappeared, and another left the server for what they felt were greener pastures - reducing the amount of active guilds interested in PvP.

Is this all on the hands of those guilds who decided to roll here collectively? No. There were numerous attempts to get larger guilds involved in PvP, but most didn’t answer the call. They’re starting to come around, finally, but it’s still not enough. There is more that can be done.

Unfortunately, it’s tied to the political system.

Politics

Before I continue, this isn’t about small guilds winning the popular vote. Any small guild that does that without the support of a sizable backing alliance of larger guilds (or nefarious means) should be commended. Specifically, this isn’t me whining that I don’t have a chance at popular vote. I never expect to have a chance at the popular vote, nor do my guildmates. I’m tainted goods, and everyone knows it.

Politics, oh how I love you. Backstabbing, accusations, counter-accusations, smear campaigns, drama, provocation, backroom deals, bribes, and more. Sounds great, doesn’t it?

Sure, when the system actually has value. Our server is being held in a stranglehold by a few ‘mega alliances’ between sizable guilds. One of those guild leaders recently provided the anecdotal statistic of 60% of the election decisions coming from alliances, 40% from the community. That, isn’t healthy for the server or its community.

We’ve seen these alliances bring power to guilds who abandoned the server (Malum Factum), or to those who had done absolutely zero campaigning (Ravenwood). The past two elections have been dominated by these two alliances, and it’s not a good thing. Why would people run against a forgone conclusion? Additionally, it’s foisted guilds who’ve proven incapable of effectively managing their zone, onto the community as they’ve been voted back into power through name recognition and the aforementioned alliances.

These alliances reduce the effectiveness of community events created to engage a variety of folks with the political process. Debates, Q/As, they all mean nothing if the actual popular vote has no weight. If everything is predetermined by alliances, guilds have no reason to make themselves available to the public, or interact with the community. Some of the most exciting times on the server have been during these events, but they struggle to gain momentum because the most active guilds aren’t supporting them.

Finally, it’s directly altered the PvP landscape. These ‘mega alliances’ have neutered the PvP scene by taking a number of the largest, most active guilds, and creating two factions (alliances). That is a direct reduction of PvPable targets. Instead of having a lively environment at the top of the food chain where folks were constantly battling for the top spot, they instead effectively made themselves into two or three guilds.

Most recently, there have been similar efforts to create a ‘two faction’ system. Jokingly referred to as the ‘Empire’ and ‘Republic’, it’s a consolidation of PvP that effectively limits the potential interactions guilds could have with one another.

Recall the earlier discussion in this thread - those of us who rolled on Basilisk Crag together helped stall our own efforts to promote PvP by our unwillingness to engage in PvP amongst ourselves. History is repeating itself.

Oloh of Nagafen recently wrote an article discussing how, for the health of the server, they were focusing on a new alliance with prominent PvP guilds. That, to me, isn’t a healthy solution. You’re trading two guilds for another two guilds of similar stature. You’re severely limiting your own risk at the cost of the server by incorporating two larger independents into the alliance system.

Do you find yourself wanting PvP? Do you find yourself wanting a challenge against active guilds who will respond to the call of battle? Do you want to make the community matter? Do you want to make use of the new ‘gathering points’ being put into the game? There's an app for that.

The Proposal

Break up the large guild alliances. Forge new ones without connections to other large guilds. Rely on the smaller guilds - of which there are many - and empower them in the political process to make their votes matter. This isn’t about putting smaller guilds in office, it’s about incorporating the entire community. If you’re a large guild, engage with smaller guilds - form bonds and alliances with them. Actively campaign against the larger guilds so your campaigns actually mean something. Create an environment that forces you to get out and interact with the people you claim to care about rather than sit back and let your alliance do all of the work for you.

Make campaigning more than the occasional area spam, forum post and afk/idling with a guild title.

Breaking up the alliances will also create a very active PvP scene. You’ll have large guilds actively engaging in PvP with each other, their smaller guild counterparts could effectively engage the other smaller guilds, or the larger guilds. Instead of Nagafen/Terarist/Divine vs People you’d have Nagafen vs Terarist vs Divine, along with all of the allies.

You’ve experienced the system, you’ve had your political stranglehold, and now it’s time to show you actually care about the community, the server’s health, and the state of PvP.

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Additional Thoughts/TLDR

Problem: The political system has devolved into a 3v3 for the top Vanarch positions as a result of 'mega alliances'. The size of these alliances has reduced the effectiveness of community events for those important positions, and muddled the PvP landscape. Guilds are elected without even campaigning.

Solution: Break up the mega alliances. Work to engage and incorporate the entire community in the political process by empowering the 'lesser guilds' with the voting system. Additionally, the removal of the mega alliances will effectively create at least six 'PvP Rally Points' for people to get behind, rather than the current two. You'll have really large guilds actively engaging each other from multiple angles, not just an exaggerated 1v1. Additionally, this will free up the political landscape to make the Vanarch GvG system very interesting.

Someone asked my thoughts on High Five gaining a Vanarch Seat. That's an example of someone empowering the community. Dragonaught has done a stellar job reaching out to everyone with accessible events. However, they had absolutely no chance at a top Vanarch position because of the stranglehold held by mega-alliance based guilds. We, as a community, should work to foster more involvement on the level that Dragonaught and the rest of High Five has shown.

These server events are what make us grow as a community. It gives us a social meeting point other than the Nexus, a collective gathering. The first election cycle there was very limited involvement by the guilds who actually ended up winning. The second election cycle, there was moderate involvement. However, when you boil it down, there is currently no apparent incentive to partake in these events if you've secured your seat via a large voting alliance.

Additionally, as noted above, there are guilds who have consistently proven themselves incapable of reliably running a province, acquiring seats via their alliances. This is not healthy for the server, or the community, because their inability to keep things open, or to manage their zone directly alters our gameplay. We should be striving to have a voice in who runs what province. Guilds who claim to support the server health should be seeking to back efforts in that vein. We want the zones open. We want the shops accessible. We don't want guilds foisted on us without a voice.

I'd much rather have guild leaders who want top Vanarch positions actively trying to win votes, rather than paying their 3k gold knowing they'll land in the #1 or #2 spots. I'd rather have Vanarchs who know they have to perform or they won't be reelected, than Vanarchs who don't care because what the community thinks doesn't matter.

To the guild leaders:

You've claimed to want PvP. You've claimed to want a healthy server. You've claimed to want a healthy community. Prove it. Stand on your own two feet. Engage the community and foster a healthy environment.
Without a doubt, you stand to lose your Vanarch seat by breaking up your large alliances. It's certainly a risk, but if you're more than talk, you should find yourself back in a position of power after the next cycle.

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If you have questions, ask. If you need things clarified, ask. If you have thoughts of your own on the topic, share. If you came to this thread looking for a fight, you were warned.

As I mentioned, this is not a complete copy of what I originally intended to post, and I am not satisfied with it. I have plenty to say on a variety of things, so feel free to bring up discussion points.
Edited by: Fatwa 11 months ago
Krystaline Profile Options #2

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But... it's so long. Even your tl;dr is long =/
Is there a cliff notes version of the tl;dr?
Fatwa Profile Options #3

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Qoute Lvl.1
Valley of Titans (PVP)
Popori Warrior
Krystaline on 06/27/2012, 02:44 PM - view
But... it's so long. Even your tl;dr is long =/
Is there a cliff notes version of the tl;dr?


This isn't long:

Problem: The political system has devolved into a 3v3 for the top Vanarch positions as a result of 'mega alliances'. The size of these alliances has reduced the effectiveness of community events for those important positions, and muddled the PvP landscape. Guilds are elected without even campaigning.

Solution: Break up the mega alliances. Work to engage and incorporate the entire community in the political process by empowering the 'lesser guilds' with the voting system. Additionally, the removal of the mega alliances will effectively create at least six 'PvP Rally Points' for people to get behind, rather than the current two. You'll have really large guilds actively engaging each other from multiple angles, not just an exaggerated 1v1. Additionally, this will free up the political landscape to make the Vanarch GvG system very interesting.
OneillIV Profile Options #4

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Oneill Lvl.60
Mount Tyrannas (PVP)
Aman Mystic
I like where you're going Fatwa but alliances and truces will change left and right. I still like Oloh's idea of a fix by limiting guilds to 100 members max. I know he was talking about the devs changing that but if the majority of guilds agree to some sort of system to discourage going over 100 members I believe it could work.

Fact is the guilds with the most members will always reign supreme politically.
Fatwa Profile Options #5

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Qoute Lvl.1
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OneillIV on 06/27/2012, 03:06 PM - view
I like where you're going Fatwa but alliances and truces will change left and right. I still like Oloh's idea of a fix by limiting guilds to 100 members max. I know he was talking about the devs changing that but if the majority of guilds agree to some sort of system to discourage going over 100 members I believe it could work.

Fact is the guilds with the most members will always reign supreme politically.


I'm not saying they won't, I'm saying that they can make efforts to actively engage the community in the political system rather than pooling their votes together - effectively shutting out everyone else. It's a lot of, "Hey look at me, I care about the server", without the follow through of actually doing things that show you care.

I mention in the post that it's not about getting smaller guilds into Vanarch seats, it's about breaking up the current trend of allying between massive guilds to guarantee that they get #1 and #2 seats, and the issues that come with that (pvp issues as noted in the post).
Dragonaught Profile Options #6

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Thank you for your words Fatwa, I'm quite humbled by them. I agree that certain guilds only have their positions because of their allies with other larger guilds in a voting triangle and that is a big reason on why we didn't get our target province but to be honest it worked out alright for The High Five because what better way to make an impact on a servers community then do things for the people who start off on the server. In a way you can say Island of Dawn was the perfect way for The High Five to start their mission on helping forge this server into something great using the Vanarch System. You are right in saying more guild leaders that are currently or expecting to one day be Vanarch need to step it up and actually create a solid campaign instead of sitting back relaxed knowing they will get their spot cause of allies. There are Vanarch's however such as Oloh of Nagafen and Persephonee of Ravenwood and Pillow of Point of Interest that I have talked to who seem to want to see this server mature into something special.

I hope to see more involvement with the community and forums from our current Vanarchs.
Mashien Profile Options #7

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It is hard to argue with this assessment.

The thing I keep coming back to is we are basically going to have to rely on the people with the power to give it up for the benefit of the community as a whole.

I don't think splitting guilds is an answer, the loyalties won't really change, if you war illuminus one for example whats stopping illuminus two and three from war declaring in support.

I thought maybe a server wide targetting of specific Alliance members, make it a pain and frustration to be a member of a "Mega Alliance" to the point they are better off leaving the alliance. There are too many problems with this strategy though.

Anyway a good post, Interested to see if any of the GM's in the Mega Alliances respond to the call out.

Leiloni Profile Options #8

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Leiloni Lvl.60
Lake of Tears (PVP)
Castanic Priest
A lack of PvP was one of the reasons I stopped playing. There were certainly others, but I have to agree on the PvP aspects of your post Fatwa. The only reason I ended up on BC was because of that alliance of guilds that came here for PvP and it didn't turn out how I'd hoped. Between the inability to PK allies and the fear of getting a bad reputation for PKing other random people, there was literally no one out there for me to PvP against outside of GvG battles (and most people were busy grinding away at PvE anyway, but that's another big fault in this game). One of the things this game has going for it is FFA PvP. Yes the political system plays a part in that but it plays too much of a part. If we're on a PvP server, we should be encouraging PvP from level 10 to level 60 as much as possible with as many people as possible. You can be friends with people and still have a good fight and you can PK other random people without getting a bad reputation - it's called a PvP server for a reason and anyone who gets butthurt over that needs to reroll. Good luck with your efforts Fatwa. Hopefully you can get some good responses.
Edited by: Leiloni 11 months ago
Fatwa Profile Options #9

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Qoute Lvl.1
Valley of Titans (PVP)
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Leiloni on 06/27/2012, 07:38 PM - view
A lack of PvP was one of the reasons I stopped playing. There were certainly others, but I have to agree on the PvP aspects of your post Fatwa. The only reason I ended up on BC was because of that alliance of guilds that came here for PvP and it didn't turn out how I'd hoped. Between the inability to PK allies and the fear of getting a bad reputation for PKing other random people, there was literally no one out there for me to PvP against outside of GvG battles (and most people were busy grinding away at PvE anyway, but that's another big fault in this game). One of the things this game has going for it is FFA PvP. Yes the political system plays a part in that but it plays too much of a part. If we're on a PvP server, we should be encouraging PvP from level 10 to level 60 as much as possible with as many people as possible. You can be friends with people and still have a good fight and you can PK other random people without getting a bad reputation - it's called a PvP server for a reason and anyone who gets butthurt over that needs to reroll. Good luck with your efforts Fatwa. Hopefully you can get some good responses.


*tiphat*

Thanks for the support, hopefully we can get some fun times with this community.
Gabija Profile Options #10

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http://tera-forums.enmasse.com/forums/basilisk-crag/topics/Ravenwood-ReElection-Thread

Ravenwood did campaign this past election. We had limited campaigning but we did.

Also, the alliance have supported both good and bad Vanarchs. Some guilds Campaigned Heavily(Malum Factum) and still abandoned us.

Some Vanarchs have Campaigned and achieved Vanarch to let zones go down. Citadel and Focus are the current ones. Some times real life things happen. However, both guilds are part of aliiances.

However, in the coming months GvG is going to count for some zones until BG's are implemented. At that tiem small PVP focused guilds will be able to compete for Vanarchs.

I do think the thread is a good idea, It gets a different opinion out there.

Thank you for your time Fatwa.