Introducing the 5v5 Tournament, 'Honor Games'

Samzius Profile Options #51

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Mizugami on 04/26/2012, 06:40 PM - view
The only reason AGAINST multiple parties from one guild would be increasing overall chances at winning the "prize".

I am pretty sure people would be willing to forfeit a "prize" in order to have multiple parties/comps just for the sake of fun and competition.


i do see your point there. would give larger guilds an unfair advantage, and give the possibility of guilds going against there own teams therefor guaranteeing they make it to the next bracket
Mizugami Profile Options #52

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Tournaments should either be prize based or fun based, both will have to have their own rule sets and ideas.

If it were fun based (without an end prize) I would see no problem with multiple entries from one guild.

If it were prize based, either 1 from each guild or no capability of WINNING the prize if using more than 1 from each guild.

I honestly prefer fun.
TaiHW Profile Options #53

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Miryu is going out of their way to host this tourney and provide the prizes, if he decides that it is one team per guild without consumables then let it be. If you want an open tournament with consumables you are more than welcome to host one yourself! The more tourneys the better :D
lIlKyo Profile Options #54

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Mizugami on 04/26/2012, 06:46 PM - view
Tournaments should either be prize based or fun based, both will have to have their own rule sets and ideas.

If it were fun based (without an end prize) I would see no problem with multiple entries from one guild.

If it were prize based, either 1 from each guild or no capability of WINNING the prize if using more than 1 from each guild.

I honestly prefer fun.


I 100% fail to understand your logic. Why can't you just take an opportunity at organized PvP to PvP and get better at it? Why does there have to be a prize and separate rules if there isn't a prize? Why not just think of it as - if there is a prize then it didn't cost you anything to increase your skill in structured PvP. If there is no prize, you can work on something specific such as a certain group comp or strategy such as going for DPS instead of healer first etc which you cannot do in environments that don't simply let you "wing it"

I think people are forgetting the main reason a server was decided on. It was to have "good" PvP between like-minded guilds minus the other zerg and overwhelming problems we saw present. To turn tail, or complicate things more than they need to be at a chance to practice at what you came to the server for, or to separate them into other categories still boggles my mind. You shouldn't need a reason, you should just want to do it because you rolled on a competitive server in the first place. (this in no way relates to PvE-minded guilds so no one bring up how guilds do both. If you consciously decided to come here based on other guilds for PvP.. then you should PvP :P)
Edited by: lIlKyo about 1 year ago
Psykik00 Profile Options #55

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Not allowing multiple teams from the same guild is inhibiting quite a bit of the fun i would say, im sure more than 5 ppl in each guild would like to participate, i suggest looking at it as rewarding the team the prize and ignoring guild tags all together.
Samzius Profile Options #56

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Psykik00 on 04/26/2012, 07:18 PM
Not allowing multiple teams from the same guild is inhibiting quite a bit of the fun i would say, im sure more than 5 ppl in each guild would like to participate, i suggest looking at it as rewarding the team the prize and ignoring guild tags all together.


This is true, especially if the prize is just gold anyways
Fatwa Profile Options #57

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lIlKyo on 04/26/2012, 05:45 PM - view
Kreid on 04/26/2012, 05:21 PM
I vote no pots/consumables as well.

If nothing else, this is for time purposes so that guilds don't try and re-charm for 5 minutes, holding up a fight, just to get the right charms, ect..

Keep in mind that this is not a BG, this is a guild-hosted tournament and has a lot of teams in it. Pots will stretch out the length of fights and can potentially make them last 5-10 minutes each. This would be terrible. The lack of pots keeps the fights a bit better balanced and reduces the length of fights substantially, to make sure that the tournament can move forward without wasting everybody's time.

No consumables is the best way to run this type of tournament. It's more about logistics of the tournament, as a whole, than it is about anything else. Just keep in mind, your opponent wont be using pots either. So there's nothing to cry about.


I mean, if you liked Aion end game PvP with fully geared players vs no geared players that's what you'll end up with if some players are not able to use potions(sorcs for instance). People will die incredibly fast, thus I have to question what you find balanced here.

I think everyone is purposefully downplaying the influence potions have in the overall balance of the game just for your own sake of time(? only real evidence you're giving me from what I understand); which, confuses me because I'm not sure what else everyone else will be doing between instances end game considering their CD. @_@

Let me put it this way.

Your argument: Potions should not be used.
Claims:
Decrease in balance because without them you're on level fighting ground
Time
Money
Tournament run by a guild

My argument: Potions should be used.
Claims:
Increase in balance as both players will READILY have ALL equal potions available to them, and in addition, adds another layer of skill timing depth and strategy.
Schedule your instances better
You really cannot afford potions scrolls and charms to do something you enjoy, I mean really?
If that's the rules they decide, we can't really change it, but at the end of the day why would you alter the state of a tournament to something other than how you will be playing for something that matters in game. It doesn't make sense to me.

You can easily say there is nothing to cry about, but at the same time, I can just as easily say for not using potions you're crying because you do not want to even acknowledge the above claims.

If you can prove to me why you would not add more depth, timings and strategy into PvP to very readily differentiate between who is good and who is not simply because you don't want to dedicate more time and in game money to something you're suppose to be enjoying feel free to do so.




As a side note: In aion when we'd set up these tournaments for ourselves we wouldn't even have prizes. We'd take the best teams from our faction and go fight use all consumables etc and whoever won got absolutely nothing. Why? Because you should be wanting to get better at the game, hence e-sports and tournament formats.

Edit: It blows my mind people are saying it's "unfair" to use potions in arena. Everyone can use the same consumables just as easily as they cannot, but there is more depth when they are added. The only thing consumable related that should ever even be thought of to be banned from arenas etc would be 50/100% heals and all the broken 30sec pots from CBT that were since removed or put on 15minute CD as far as I can tell.


You actually inadvertently supported my stance of not wanting consumables to be allowed by supplying your claims as to why they should be allowed. So, thanks for that.

I do find it curious that one of the most vocal individuals in favor of consumable use is a person playing a class most likely to use them.
Edited by: Fatwa about 1 year ago
Miryu Profile Options #58

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Psykik00 on 04/26/2012, 07:18 PM - view
Not allowing multiple teams from the same guild is inhibiting quite a bit of the fun i would say, im sure more than 5 ppl in each guild would like to participate, i suggest looking at it as rewarding the team the prize and ignoring guild tags all together.


I like the idea of completely ignoring guild tags for the tournament and rather have people sign up with team names instead, guild tag being irrelevant. The rule of a player only allowed being on one team would have to be implemented for this, obviously.

As for items, I'm currently thinking that monitoring potion and consumable use would be damn near impossible, so I think I'm going to allow them to an extent. I don't think I'll permit guild potions though, (IIRC, these aren't permitted in BGs anyway). I'm also on the fence about charms, using the right charm is definitely a part of strategy when you are deciding on how to fight a team comp, but seeing as how on the 19th there won't be vanarchs yet and special vendors that sell specific charms will not be available, getting the charm you want may be time consuming and drag out the tournament. I think permitting charms might be something to wait on until specific charms are available, for future tournaments, and not permit them for this tournament. Basically Pots and scrolls allowed, guild pots and charms not allowed. I'd like to hear how you guys feel about this though.


My original reasoning of disallowing consumables is still there though; if I disable consumables then everyone is on equal footing in terms of them. If I enable them, it gives an advantage to people who have time to farm them and forces other people to -have- to farm them in order to compete, basically 'you have to invest more into this tournament, because i did.' I'm not to keen on this, but I understand the argument that consumables are like skills and are definitely a part of the game, and will be a part of competitive pvp in the future.
Edited by: Miryu about 1 year ago
Suwayer Profile Options #59

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lIlKyo Profile Options #60

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Fatwa, you post too much garbage. You're too blind to read the perspective I'm even posting this from.


I agree with the above. As long as the items are readily accessible to people they should be in use for tournaments, so none of the charms until a bit into the game would be fine, I think. I also agree with no guild pots.
In reference to the last paragraph Miryu, just go back and look at what dasher posted. So, yes - that's why they should be in use.
Edited by: lIlKyo about 1 year ago