(( I just wanted to hop in here and thank everyone for their input and keeping it friendly. I think what makes this system fun will be the good-natured politicking and we'll eventually see some guilds becoming well-established Vanarchs of their realms and others trying to break them down. It's too bad Vanarchs don't get dragons ala L2! :)

It's almost too bad the price for Vanarch runs would not be flat but be based on the region with some regions being worth more in taxes. This way large groups would go for the big zones and yet small guilds could still run for lesser territories. ))

~ Kawaiiko, OOC

I had posted a blurb on taxes on the CH Facebook page this morning - Reposting for non FB folks w/my 'other' relevant point bolded...

I cannot 'rightfully' demand that our Vanarch's not only dedicate so much of their (and their guild's) time to keeping things open AND that they also lose money every time they run for Vanarch. The taxes on CH are more than fair imho, and, in fact, I am concerned that some of our Vanarch's who keep taxes very low are not considering the cost-analysis (aka making enough to 'recoup their registration fees/pay for their next election.) I would much rather pay higher taxes and keep good Vanarch's in office, than have low taxes, but no one willing to go through the cost and hassle of being Vanarch. Our Vanarch's (and their guilds) are members of our wonderful community and, in my humble opinion, they have every right to some level of competition for all the hard work and dedication they must put in FOR our community..


Quote: Takarazuka on 06/09/2012, 08:34 AM - view

You are exactly the kind of Vanarch I am concerned about our community 'losing' to burn out. Your dedication and efforts admirable, but I do hope you are not giving too much...

And to all our Vanarch's please do not push yourselves too hard over the (imho) unrealistic expectations of a vocal few...

I'm a bit excited because the groups will either gain fame or infamy depending on how well they handle the election...

It's either going to be a peaceful election or a bloody one... take your bets!

Out of curiosity, how would people feel if there were no open services at all? Let's say that being a Vanarch was onerous and unenjoyable enough that eventually, after a few election cycles, no one was even running anymore. I know, there are those who'd run regardless of the cost benefit, but imagine that either those persons were lost to burn out, and eithe rno one ran, or only those who put no effort into it ran; i.e., they just want the horse.

So, no services in the provinces at all. Now, compare that to services on, but with tax rates set high enough to turn a decent profit for each Vanarch, say, 20%. Now, which do we prefer? No services turned on at all; or services on, but at a fairly high tax rate?

Quote: Ardrea on 06/09/2012, 09:25 PM - view
I can easily see this happening. With the amount of hate these vanarchs seem to get, the amount of time it takes to farm the Policy Points to keep the vendors up, and the net loss you take each time you register, it's really not all that great like the original poster seems to make it out to be. I'm not sure why the OP feels that they are owed only 1% takes with all shops open all the time...

I know our guild has already decided we won't be running again (Here We Divide). It's just not worth it. All Brandon gets is hate because our taxes aren't 1%, though we work our butts off to ensure everything is up since a few hours since the election concluded. The registration of 3,000 gold, is actually quite a lot when you think about the fact we are still wanting to play the game you know.. and getting gear and trying to enchant it (wow... what a money sink that is...).

If a guild wants to keep their taxes at 1%, good for them, obviously they can afford it. But if the OP is not voting for other guilds because they have 4 or 5% (which is still less than some other servers), then maybe they should run for Vanarch and see how well they do.

5% is not a lot. Seriously. I was not in a Vanarch guild. I had no problem paying 5% tax. You know why? Cause you make 2g off 1 mob in the game. What are you buying in towns? Bentleys? :P I seriously did not see any car vendors!

Also to the person who was QQing up a storm. You say VANARCHS R GETTING RICH!? Off what. the 90g a day the taxes brought them? Learn before you speak.

@Christyee Where do you see me post anything about what I feel I deserve? I simply provided a concise view of the available information from the first election. I had no statement anywhere stating that any information was good/bad. Personally my only concern was that I could purchase items conveniently, and in most areas that wasn't an issue.

My point in posting was that this was our first election. The stats/rates set by our first vanarchs are going to be used to measure all those that come after for better or worse. Please do not assume to know what my motivation or thoughts are on the topic.

As to my voting for those who kept taxes under 1%...can you please tell me where you got that information as I don't think we know each other in game or out.

Ultimately, if one is concerned about making money, or not losing money for himself or his guild, he simply should not run for vanarchy.

Sure, becoming a vanarch is costly, staying in office is costly. Saying that Vanarchs are the new uncle scrooge swimming in pools of money is very misleading, but saying that a Vanarchy doesn't come with very sizable advantages is just as misleading.

Please don't play the role of the political martyr that is dishing out money for free "for the people!", getting nothing in exchange. That's simply not true.

Vanarchy DOES give the Vanarch and his guild very sizable advantages. They may not be strictly monetary, but they definitely exist. Denying them is, again, misleading.

The fastest mount of the game is only the beginning, and actually the smallest advantage (while the most visible).

The biggest advantage is that a vanarchy is a giant billboard that constantly advertises your guild, making recruitment and retaining numbers a lot easier. Your name is out there every time someone enters your province, unguilded people see your guildmates on their spiffy horses and get interested, while other guilds have to resorts to much more work-intensive methods to get their numbers up and retain them.

Ultimately, it's a powerful marketing tool for a player's personal image and his guild. Real estate billboard space has a cost anywhere. This is no different- If you're concerned about the cost, simply don't run next election and do your recruiting the old fashioned way.

Honestly once you reach the endgame 3000 gold is a pittance. It's less than the cost of a single enigmatic tier 12 weapon or chestpiece. Even the smaller guilds can easily scrape it up with a minimal tax. I would say having a big banner ad popping on everyone's screen multiple times is quite worth that entire cost.

But again, if it's not worth it for you, don't run. You want to keep your taxes high to recoup that cost? Fine. But you also can't blame those that won't vote you next time around. Many players, just as much as real voters, vote out of their own interest and not because you're nice and have a wonderful personality.

That's the basics of democracy.

Also, keep in mind that higher taxes mean that less people will come buy your goods. Many actually check the tax rate before going to buy those 1200 refined alkahest they need. You want to keep that 5% tax? Again, it's very fine, but don't complain if you get the crumbs while people go do their big purchases in Popolion or Westonia, bringing those vanarchs more gold.

A vanarch with a 1% tax rate gets about 2.4 gold for every single enchanting attempt between +7 and +9 of a tier 12 weapon/piece of armor with materials purchased in their province, with a massive fail rate. Without even counting the masterwork attempts that for now are still rare (but will increase more and more in the future).

Sure, it's tempting to turn those 2.4 gold in 12 gold with a 5% tax rate. But if people go buy their materials somewhere else because they can save 10 gold per attempt, you get nothing.

The more the game will progress, with more people reaching the endgame and accessing those extremely costly enchantments, the more this will apply and the more people will be "careful" on where they purchase their goods, to get the most out of their gold.

Less taxes don't necessarily mean less income, especially in a world where everyone sells exactly the same products and you can travel from one continent to the other in 3 minutes.

This doesn't mean that *I* will vote at any election based entirely on taxes. But I know that quite a lot of people will. And I can't and won't blame them.

That said, it will be a partial factor even for me, because I'd rather give my vote to someone that isn't too concerned about so little gold that I can make it in a couple days by myself without even having the support of a guild.

Asuming parity of effort, fun events and wonderful personality, i'd rather vote someone who is willing to pay for the advantages he and his guilds get out of his own pocket, without trying to recoup them on those that voted him. Also, the ability to understand what I wrote in this post and apply it to one's advantage does play a bit of a role in earning my respect.

Also, those that reach the conclusion that vanarchy is not something they care about, and they simply sit out of the election because they don't care about having a billboard and paying the rent of it do get respect points in my book. No one holds anyone at gunpoint to be vanarch. It's an advantage, a bonus, plain and simple. Whether that advantage is worth the entry price for you, it's your prerogative to decide. Those that know their limits are good in my book.

As it's my prerogative to respect a bit more those that take the investment and play the role to its full extent, sharing that advantage with everyone involved (their guild AND the voters, with lower taxes), or simply sit out, leaving more space for those willing to do that.

I apologize to those that will find my cold-hearted analysis distasteful, but sugar coating isn't exactly my forte. It's all good since I don't plan to run for vanarchy :D

^ Overestimated.


I think that within about 4 months, we'll see hardly any guilds running for Vanarch, and less and less vendors open. Those "advatages" simply are not worth the hassle. Every recruit I have picked up specifically spoke of my website, and my in game ad.

I guess the one major advantage is being a small guild, it puts us on the front page of "Guilds on server", so you may be right about that.... but wanting to remain a small guild, it's much less of an advantage since I'd deny anyone only interested in that god-awful ugly Vanarch mount.

Quote: Abriael on 06/10/2012, 06:35 AM - view

I'm glad SOMEONE finally gets what I was saying.