Fane & Glory vs. Research & Inquiry

Yosha Profile Options #1

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5
Prime
Yosh Lvl.60
Tempest Reach (PVE)
Elin Warrior


Looking for suggestions on which sword I should get. I have plans to masterwork and get it up to +12. I see pros and cons for each of them, but I just wonder if the way I think between these two is on the right track or not.

Fane & Glory

Pros
- Has one extra attribute stat (+3/+5/+7/+9)
- T13 weapon fodder is easier & cheaper to get (around 300g on broker/and play AC NM)
- Has enraged monster dmg on base stat where R&I does not

Cons
- Have to gather materials to craft this weapon
- Attack modifier is weaker of course
- MW +12 gives 3127+1156 (1% bonus example)

Research & Inquiry

Pros
- Pretty much free to get by attending Nexus
- Attack modifier is better
- MW +12 gives 3532+1306 (1% bonus example)

Cons
- T14 fodder is harder & expensive to get (around 780g on broker/and playing HM)
- Does not have enraged base stats
- Does not have extra attribute stat (+3/+6/+9)

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I also wonder if the attack difference between the two would make any noticeable difference on dmg. I'll use both swords for example that are MW +12 at 1%, 2%, and 3%. The numbers may be a bit off too, but not a huge margin.

Research & Inquiry vs. Fane & Glory MW +12 Attack Comparison
MW 1%: 3512 (+1306) - 3127(+1156) = 533
MW 2%: 3512 (+1341) - 3127(+1187) = 537
MW 3%: 3512 (+1376) - 3127(+1219) = 542

EDIT: I suppose I'm not including Ridge & Rift from Argon Corpus HM since the drop is very abysmal right now. Definitely for sure I would go for that instead of nexus swords.
Edited by: Yosha almost 2 years ago
Celesian Profile Options #2

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You will get better overall damage with Fane & Glory. Reason being is with both at +12 your looking at roughly a 550atk difference. But the Fane & Glory has 6% dmg to enrage mobs which happens quite often in farm content. Also Research & Inquiry doesn't have a +7 bonus. So again your missing out on behind mob dmg or atk spd or another enraged dmg. That 550 atk isn't going to make up for 6% enrage dmg plus a +7 modifier.
Ridge and Rift sorta falls into the same category, Is it better yea maybe is it worth ungodly amounts of money to get it up to +12 no not really. Ridge & Rift will be somewhere around 780 atk higher than Fane & Glory but again you loose a +7 bonus. Again these are all estimates on Attack as my Ridge & Rift is only +9 atm and still isn't better than my +12 Fane & Glory.
leliel Profile Options #3

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Celesian on 10/11/2012, 11:19 AM - view
You will get better overall damage with Fane & Glory. Reason being is with both at +12 your looking at roughly a 550atk difference. But the Fane & Glory has 6% dmg to enrage mobs which happens quite often in farm content. Also Research & Inquiry doesn't have a +7 bonus. So again your missing out on behind mob dmg or atk spd or another enraged dmg. That 550 atk isn't going to make up for 6% enrage dmg plus a +7 modifier.


Um that 542 extra attack is a 12.47% increase, I'm pretty shure that will make up for the 6% enraged and whatever the extra stat at +7 is, except that you'll get it all the time instead of just when monsters are enraged.

To clarify, the nexus t14 weapons are not meant as upgrades for people with dreamkeeper weapons, they're for the people that never got dreamkeeper.
Edited by: leliel almost 2 years ago
Rauncher Profile Options #4

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if u have yet to get either weapon the t14 looks better. The raw damage increase is reason enough. For the t13 u gotta have an enraged mob and u gotta make up another 6.47% from the last stat bonus most likely another 6% enrage modifier.

If we say the damage is about even then we look at the other bonuses on both weapons.

t13 has 3% increase in damage mobs that agro u.
t14 has 50% chance to restore mana at the start of combat (we can ignore this), and increased resistance to knockdowns.

I'd go with the t14 bonuses from this point on. 3% more damage is nice, but it won't happen much unless u're soloing or tanking. Even when tanking i think the resistance to knockdowns is better than the slight increase in damage.
Airutra Profile Options #5

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"Resistance to knockdowns" on a weapon is a typo. It actually gives increased chance to knockdown/debuff which is just impact factor. So on bosses like Meldita HM, the nexus weapon will a lot better because you'll be able to stack debuffs much easier with its higher impact and +impact factor.
illusoire Profile Options #6

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2
Friendly
Rylen Lvl.60
Lake of Tears (PVP)
Elin Mystic
Airutra on 10/11/2012, 03:04 PM - view
"Resistance to knockdowns" on a weapon is a typo. It actually gives increased chance to knockdown/debuff which is just impact factor. So on bosses like Meldita HM, the nexus weapon will a lot better because you'll be able to stack debuffs much easier with its higher impact and +impact factor.


But impact affects how much you knock down, not how easily you debuff. o.O
Yosha Profile Options #7

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5
Prime
Yosh Lvl.60
Tempest Reach (PVE)
Elin Warrior
Actually, I forgotten about one important thing, Power Bonuses (green number). But the thing is, I don't know the formula to determine how much it increases. Does it come from your main attack stat? If so, gaining about +500 more attack would add more bonus power then.

Like right now, I have 21737 attack. My power bonuses comes from my T14 MW Gloves and Pristine Powerful Zyrks right now. So each bonus becomes like +148, +297, +446, +595, +744, etc.

Celaeris Profile Options #8

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Power bonuses affect both weapons equally, so it's not an issue. Basically you're comparing the damage of a T14 weapon to a T13 weapon. T14 weapon is definitely better, but the better modifiers on the dreamkeeper might change that.

I'll use your numbers, let's assume you have a 2% weapon, your rings are Kryheart Settings (w/sockets), and you're earrings are Caged Winds/Caged Curiosities. For a necklace, I'll assume you have the Thulsian Curio from SG. (for 4% attack speed and a bit more attack).

If you add up the attack modifiers for a +12 T13, and T14 weapon with the rings and necklaces you get:
T14: 5,843
T13: 5,304

Attack scales these completely, and it depends on power, but since power is only at 10, 11, 12, and on gloves and your power zyrks, it doesn't matter. I had to add in rings and necklaces since those are constant.

So, according to those numbers, your T14 weapon will hit intrinsically 10% harder.
However, if we take into account the boss damage and such, lets see how much difference there is. We'll assume you go for double speed, then as extras boss, back, enrange in that order:
T13:
5.3% boss
5.7% behind
7% enraged
8.5% speed
----
9% speed
6% boss
6.4% behind
8% enraged

T14:
5.3% boss
5.7% behind
8.5% speed
----
9% speed
6% boss
6.4% behind

Adding up the bonuses:
T13: 138.4% more damage from behind/enraged.
T14: 123.4% more damage from behind/enraged.

If the boss is not enraged, the T14 weapon is better, by 10% as stated earlier, since the options are all the same. If the boss is enraged, then it's like having 135.7% damage from the extra attack, vs 138, so it's slightly worse, because of how things multiply.

So, even if the boss is enraged, the dreamkeeper weapon only does about 2% more damage, otherwise, it does 10% less damage. It's a bit more prominent if you aren't getting back hits when the boss is enraged, but that doesn't happen as often. (FYI, the dream keeper weapon does about 3% more damage than Agnitor).

In Table form T14 damage compared to T13 damage:
not enraged: +10%
enraged, not back: -3%
enraged, back: -2%

In conclusion, the T14 wepaon is better, but not by too much, especially against bosses that are enraged a lot. You seem to lean towards the T14 weapon because Agnitor credits are free. Well, they aren't, since you can always get Zyrks and sell them, or sell other tradeable items like fodder, etc.

It's only about 10k to make a dreamkeeper weapon, and the MW cost is about the same (~10k if you assume 3% and 300g per master scroll). A lot of the price will come from enchanting, and T13 is much cheaper. Really though, you should probably spend 20k (I think that's the current price) of the Abyss weapon, and it's better that way.

TL;DR T14 is a slight upgrade to T13. T13 is probably cheaper overall; spend money on the Abyss weapon.
Airutra Profile Options #9

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+Power is affected by your weapon and rings. The attack modifier to be specific.


Impact also affects chance to stun. From personal experiences, I would say that impact also affects debuffing. Back when I was in T12+9 weapon doing BTHM, I wouldn't apply as many traverse stacks as when I got my T13 nexus weapon which also had bonus impact on it.
Celaeris Profile Options #10

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Oh attack formula:

Attack = SumOfAttackModifiers * 3 * (100 + Power) / 100