Biju
Profile Options
#31
0
thats so tame, where are the male swimsuit? >:O
-Biju
-Biju
Dreavyen
Profile Options
#32
0
So...~ No one wants mixed alchohol and Watching a Baraka surf!?
-Kilikika
-Kilikika
Retief
Profile Options
#33
0
kirsch on 06/29/2012, 03:05 PM - view
By observing the hip to waist ratio? And comparing to real 7 year olds?
Korilynn on 06/29/2012, 03:02 PMBut one should still be able to tell the difference.
whaaaat? if lore said elin were seven year olds I would not question it because they look like seven year olds, not sure how I can tell that they are not supposed to be seven years old without reading the lore
By observing the hip to waist ratio? And comparing to real 7 year olds?
Malamasala
Profile Options
#34
0
Still wondering if EME are observing the ratio of like 10 : 1 of against censorship in this thread, or if they'll once again say "We THINK that people who are silent hate Elins, so we adjusted the swimsuits".
Not like it matters. Those who cares already mod the game for normal armors, and would by extension mod the swimsuits. It is only a question about if EME wants to look like idiots or normal people.
Not like it matters. Those who cares already mod the game for normal armors, and would by extension mod the swimsuits. It is only a question about if EME wants to look like idiots or normal people.
Katosu
Profile Options
#35
0
I kind of see it from both sides. A lot of people argue their hips alone mean they don't look like 7-year-olds, but at the same time, I've seen the detractors state that 'one factor does not instantly make it not look like something.'
The best example I ever saw was, 'Do Elves/Castanic not look human because of their Ears/Horns?' - It's a good point. They still have all the human traits, they just have some slight differences. Just like how the Elin may have good hips, but their stature, face, and overall build still makes them appear child-like to many.
For one side to argue with the other about their beliefs on this is really pointless. Censorship tends to come in the form of the most conservative side in this case - the ones who feel they look like kids and shouldn't be running around scantily clad.
My own personal feelings on it? People would just like a higher-quality edit. They feel like the current job is a real slap-on copy/paste color repaint in a lot of cases, and it leaves them highly dissatisfied. It doesn't leave them feeling like the same level of care was put into the mod as it was for the outfits.
I do wish there was a way to make both sides happy, but I don't think you'll find it.
The best example I ever saw was, 'Do Elves/Castanic not look human because of their Ears/Horns?' - It's a good point. They still have all the human traits, they just have some slight differences. Just like how the Elin may have good hips, but their stature, face, and overall build still makes them appear child-like to many.
For one side to argue with the other about their beliefs on this is really pointless. Censorship tends to come in the form of the most conservative side in this case - the ones who feel they look like kids and shouldn't be running around scantily clad.
My own personal feelings on it? People would just like a higher-quality edit. They feel like the current job is a real slap-on copy/paste color repaint in a lot of cases, and it leaves them highly dissatisfied. It doesn't leave them feeling like the same level of care was put into the mod as it was for the outfits.
I do wish there was a way to make both sides happy, but I don't think you'll find it.
panther13
Profile Options
#36
0
Elins in swimsuits promotes pedophilia. Don't do it EME!
Malamasala
Profile Options
#37
0
Katosu on 06/30/2012, 04:55 AM - view
There has never been and will never be a problem finding a solution to make both happy. It is called offering both looks, and letting the players themselves choose.
If they did this, everyone would be happy. Instead they did not do this, so that people went behind their backs and modded the game back. Meaning we have the same result for players as if EME had done the right thing, but people are breaking rules and bad mouthing EME.
It is the exact same thing as PvE and PvP servers. They could have done only PvE servers and said "There is no way to make everyone happy", or they could offer you a choice of PvE or PvP servers. The choice alone increases sales drastically.
In some cases there is no way to make everyone happy. For example warrior buffs, where even if you liked the old warrior, it is hard to claim EME should have split it into "Old warrior class" and added "new warrior class" and let people roll one of them. But in surprisingly many, all you need is an option. (Like you don't need easier dungeons, you can add an easy mode)
I do wish there was a way to make both sides happy, but I don't think you'll find it.
There has never been and will never be a problem finding a solution to make both happy. It is called offering both looks, and letting the players themselves choose.
If they did this, everyone would be happy. Instead they did not do this, so that people went behind their backs and modded the game back. Meaning we have the same result for players as if EME had done the right thing, but people are breaking rules and bad mouthing EME.
It is the exact same thing as PvE and PvP servers. They could have done only PvE servers and said "There is no way to make everyone happy", or they could offer you a choice of PvE or PvP servers. The choice alone increases sales drastically.
In some cases there is no way to make everyone happy. For example warrior buffs, where even if you liked the old warrior, it is hard to claim EME should have split it into "Old warrior class" and added "new warrior class" and let people roll one of them. But in surprisingly many, all you need is an option. (Like you don't need easier dungeons, you can add an easy mode)
gilmorej
Profile Options
#38
0
Swimsuits?
Hell, I want these things!
http://tera.hangame.com/shop/itemDetail.nhn?prodId=TERA_ITM_WPN_022_30
http://tera.hangame.com/shop/itemDetail.nhn?prodId=TERA_ITM_WPN_023_30
Hell, I want these things!
http://tera.hangame.com/shop/itemDetail.nhn?prodId=TERA_ITM_WPN_022_30
http://tera.hangame.com/shop/itemDetail.nhn?prodId=TERA_ITM_WPN_023_30
Edited by: gilmorej
11 months ago
Katosu
Profile Options
#39
0
Malamasala on 06/30/2012, 07:30 AM - view
While plausible, will this fit in line with the sensibilities the developer was putting into the game when they added in the mod on the armor?
The issue is, the only way to change it is to make it similar to a Gore slider, where you would adjust the 'skimpiness' of outfits. And to be fair, to add that in for one race alone is more work than just taking out the mods in teh first place, which is more work than just leaving the mods as they are now.
Now, simply to play devil's advocate for a moment, if they tried to make a 'every armor has 2 sets' deal, people would complain when they get the wrong one they don't like the look of. Even with an outfitter, there are still some items that just don't match your model.
To say people choose, well, if it's represented to others, then someone who feels it offends them would see you running around in an Elin G-String and would feel discomforted by it. So that doesn't work.
The last option is simply changing the .Dat files like a lot of people do. But EME doesn't support this, so it's rougher and possibly could get you banned (have not heard reports of it, but eh - who ever wants to be the first?)
My last concern is on an RP server. This is a minority, however, so not as important - but if everyone sees only what option they select (Skimpy Outfits / Not Skimpy outfits), then it would be harder to roleplay within this universe. All characters would simply have to not make mention of their outfits, which in descriptive writing or in describing a character, is harder than you think.
These are my opinions. I'm glad you are so passionate about this - it's good to have your beliefs. :) But I do still feel, that if we keep in mind the feelings of the developers when they made these changes (That the outfits were too far), then we can see it's not such a simple fix.
Katosu on 06/30/2012, 04:55 AMI do wish there was a way to make both sides happy, but I don't think you'll find it.
There has never been and will never be a problem finding a solution to make both happy. It is called offering both looks, and letting the players themselves choose.
If they did this, everyone would be happy. Instead they did not do this, so that people went behind their backs and modded the game back. Meaning we have the same result for players as if EME had done the right thing, but people are breaking rules and bad mouthing EME.
It is the exact same thing as PvE and PvP servers. They could have done only PvE servers and said "There is no way to make everyone happy", or they could offer you a choice of PvE or PvP servers. The choice alone increases sales drastically.
In some cases there is no way to make everyone happy. For example warrior buffs, where even if you liked the old warrior, it is hard to claim EME should have split it into "Old warrior class" and added "new warrior class" and let people roll one of them. But in surprisingly many, all you need is an option. (Like you don't need easier dungeons, you can add an easy mode)
While plausible, will this fit in line with the sensibilities the developer was putting into the game when they added in the mod on the armor?
The issue is, the only way to change it is to make it similar to a Gore slider, where you would adjust the 'skimpiness' of outfits. And to be fair, to add that in for one race alone is more work than just taking out the mods in teh first place, which is more work than just leaving the mods as they are now.
Now, simply to play devil's advocate for a moment, if they tried to make a 'every armor has 2 sets' deal, people would complain when they get the wrong one they don't like the look of. Even with an outfitter, there are still some items that just don't match your model.
To say people choose, well, if it's represented to others, then someone who feels it offends them would see you running around in an Elin G-String and would feel discomforted by it. So that doesn't work.
The last option is simply changing the .Dat files like a lot of people do. But EME doesn't support this, so it's rougher and possibly could get you banned (have not heard reports of it, but eh - who ever wants to be the first?)
My last concern is on an RP server. This is a minority, however, so not as important - but if everyone sees only what option they select (Skimpy Outfits / Not Skimpy outfits), then it would be harder to roleplay within this universe. All characters would simply have to not make mention of their outfits, which in descriptive writing or in describing a character, is harder than you think.
These are my opinions. I'm glad you are so passionate about this - it's good to have your beliefs. :) But I do still feel, that if we keep in mind the feelings of the developers when they made these changes (That the outfits were too far), then we can see it's not such a simple fix.
Malamasala
Profile Options
#40
0
Katosu on 06/30/2012, 09:04 AM - view
I think you worry too much about the theoretical problems. Take RP servers for example. I can promise you people have modded their Elins there as well. Have you noticed any problems? Probably not, since it really isn't an issue.
While the proper and good toggle option would require work, there is always the faster and temporary solution where EME lets you download the other texture pack and replace the censorship. This would be virtually the same as modding, except supported by EME. Hence it would work (since modding works), and it would be fine because it is supported.
And just as with mods, it is what your settings are at that determines what you see, while others see things by their settings. This is because the changes were CENSORSHIP. It is there to block you from seeing things you don't want to see. (Either pants or panties, since it works both ways). If it wasn't censorship, it could be done so that others saw you based on your settings, and it would mean people who dislike panties would be forced to see them on others. Not a suitable solution.
As for the developers reasons, I've asked a hundred times and only gotten silence. It is just apparent that there is no reason that doesn't sound ridiculous. (I'm expecting "We removed it to avoid pedos to play our game", just as Frogster admitted).
I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt, and assuming they changed it to let people who didn't want to see the Elin armors, get something else to look at. At which point there is no contradiction in letting those who want to see the Elin armors, use the default skins.
And remember, the swimsuits are 75% more naked than the problematic Elin armors. They more or less need to add a bath robe all around the Elin to solve this. (Most likely they'll simply not sell the Elin swimsuit at all, and when people complain they'll as usual reply "It was a business decision")
While plausible, will this fit in line with the sensibilities the developer was putting into the game when they added in the mod on the armor?
The issue is, the only way to change it is to make it similar to a Gore slider, where you would adjust the 'skimpiness' of outfits. And to be fair, to add that in for one race alone is more work than just taking out the mods in teh first place, which is more work than just leaving the mods as they are now.
Now, simply to play devil's advocate for a moment, if they tried to make a 'every armor has 2 sets' deal, people would complain when they get the wrong one they don't like the look of. Even with an outfitter, there are still some items that just don't match your model.
To say people choose, well, if it's represented to others, then someone who feels it offends them would see you running around in an Elin G-String and would feel discomforted by it. So that doesn't work.
The last option is simply changing the .Dat files like a lot of people do. But EME doesn't support this, so it's rougher and possibly could get you banned (have not heard reports of it, but eh - who ever wants to be the first?)
My last concern is on an RP server. This is a minority, however, so not as important - but if everyone sees only what option they select (Skimpy Outfits / Not Skimpy outfits), then it would be harder to roleplay within this universe. All characters would simply have to not make mention of their outfits, which in descriptive writing or in describing a character, is harder than you think.
These are my opinions. I'm glad you are so passionate about this - it's good to have your beliefs. :) But I do still feel, that if we keep in mind the feelings of the developers when they made these changes (That the outfits were too far), then we can see it's not such a simple fix.
I think you worry too much about the theoretical problems. Take RP servers for example. I can promise you people have modded their Elins there as well. Have you noticed any problems? Probably not, since it really isn't an issue.
While the proper and good toggle option would require work, there is always the faster and temporary solution where EME lets you download the other texture pack and replace the censorship. This would be virtually the same as modding, except supported by EME. Hence it would work (since modding works), and it would be fine because it is supported.
And just as with mods, it is what your settings are at that determines what you see, while others see things by their settings. This is because the changes were CENSORSHIP. It is there to block you from seeing things you don't want to see. (Either pants or panties, since it works both ways). If it wasn't censorship, it could be done so that others saw you based on your settings, and it would mean people who dislike panties would be forced to see them on others. Not a suitable solution.
As for the developers reasons, I've asked a hundred times and only gotten silence. It is just apparent that there is no reason that doesn't sound ridiculous. (I'm expecting "We removed it to avoid pedos to play our game", just as Frogster admitted).
I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt, and assuming they changed it to let people who didn't want to see the Elin armors, get something else to look at. At which point there is no contradiction in letting those who want to see the Elin armors, use the default skins.
And remember, the swimsuits are 75% more naked than the problematic Elin armors. They more or less need to add a bath robe all around the Elin to solve this. (Most likely they'll simply not sell the Elin swimsuit at all, and when people complain they'll as usual reply "It was a business decision")