'Carebears ruin MMOs' and other musings
(I do not use the term carebear as an insult. It is used to describe the population that plays games wholly or mostly for pve content.)
As the title says, carebears tend to ruin MMOs for anyone that does not have their same playstyle. They tend to be extremely vocal about anything that encroaches on their item farming, dungeon runs, in-game marriages, and other carebear crap. Games that have had tremendous potential for pvp have all but tanked because the pvp was nerfed or altered in a way that ran off the pvp community. Then the game is done once the carebears find out that the endgame PvE can't hold their attention very long and they move on to the next shiny bauble.
This is an example of carebear thoughts and it can come with serious negative consequences if taken seriously:
http://tera-forums.enmasse.com/forums/general-discussion/topics/PvP-Flag-and-Griefing
Developers need to realize that their success can be guaranteed by the minority pvp community. After all the boring PvE has been done and the devs are finding it hard to put out new and original content/ideas to keep the carebears from whining, what is left to sustain the game's player base? It's the pvpers! We are the community that continues to play, provided the devs build excellent pvp systems, even after the rest of the game gets boring because we don't care about 90% of that junk. Look to history to show how the pvp community can keep games going indefinitely. UO still has a player base. Shadowbane had a player base to the very end and it is so strong even now that the game is being rebuilt by former players in an emulation project. EVE is huge. Pvp is the true key to a game's longevity.
So now that we've established that pvpers are what will keep this game alive for the long run what do we do to ensure that? The concept is two-fold: 1. Do not alter any pvp systems based on suggestions or advice from players that plan to play on pve servers or those with no real meaningful pvp experience(WoW does not count) and 2. There must be accountability in pvp to make it worthwhile. The former point is pretty self-explanatory so let me address the latter. Gankfests without accountability(i.e. any MMO that attempted to be pvp-centric to some degree and totally failed at developing and fleshing the system out[AoC was one]) will ruin any chance a game has at keeping the pvp community. While there will be a few people here that claim to be super hardcore because they played a game where people got camped for hours and whatever else, such a system is not hardcore -- it is boring and runs off real pvpers because it gets old after a week. A system that allows a FFA gankfest to happen can only succeed if those doing the ganking can be held accountable for their actions and be made to feel the repercussions. The prime example of this is Shadowbane. So you decided to come and gank a few lowbies and AFKers in our city? That's awesome because now I will be coming with 10 or 20 guildies to bash down your city walls tonight.
It is repurcussions such as those that allow for in-game politics to develop and keep people interested. It makes people think twice before they kill someone else. It deters random ganking(without stupid flagging systems) but allows for it. There must be a true political metagame in any successful pvp system and that just doesn't happen in a FFA gankfest system that has no accountability. The developers must heed to this because history has proven it to be so.
So here are some of take-away points that the developers need to pay attention to:
1. Get rid of the stupid flagging system and allow the FFA to truly be FFA. The game will have so much more depth if players are always on their toes wondering if that guy up there is friend or foe.
2. The pvp servers must be considered a completely separate entity and any design changes to the game must acknowledge that. Do not make changes to pvp on the pvp servers based on changes from the pve servers, i.e. carebears on a pve server whine that the system is still not carebear enough for them so you implement additional carebear changes.
3. There must, must, must be accountability if you plan to make this game last.
4. Keep the number of pvp servers to a very minimum number. Once the carebears figure out they can't handle or don't want to be on such a server we'd like to still have good server populations.
5. Player inventories/backpacks should be lootable to make pvp more meaningful.
6. If you actually invest the time into fleshing out the pvp system and making this game truly worthy of having pvp servers then you will have a guaranteed subscriber base for the life of the game.
Developers of today must face the fact that unless they are Blizzard, they are not going to keep the carebears' interest very long, at least in the US/EU. Sorry Tera, you are not the next WoW. Nor is any other MMO in the works. Face that fact and develop an amazing game that does not cater to that attempt.
TL;DR - Take your adderall and invest a few minutes to read the post.
p.s. These forums are terribly designed. Hire new web developers.
(I do not use the term carebear as an insult. It is used to describe the population that plays games wholly or mostly for pve content.)
As the title says, carebears tend to ruin MMOs for anyone that does not have their same playstyle. They tend to be extremely vocal about anything that encroaches on their item farming, dungeon runs, in-game marriages, and other carebear crap. Games that have had tremendous potential for pvp have all but tanked because the pvp was nerfed or altered in a way that ran off the pvp community. Then the game is done once the carebears find out that the endgame PvE can't hold their attention very long and they move on to the next shiny bauble.
This is an example of carebear thoughts and it can come with serious negative consequences if taken seriously:
So reading how pvp is going to work on pvp servers... i have to admit i'm sort of semi-worried now. As i was REALLY into the game,and still am. but feels like... this whole flag attack anyone system can easily be used by griefers. Its bad enough trying to level on a pvp server where you have faction members to help you, but now feels like... everyone around me is a potential foe. On top of this we now have the idea of " THOSE ARE MY MOBS" flag and attack!
So now most petty of situations could cause an all out war and while MIGHT sound could see whole days lost trying to level up do to griefers, griefing and generally players just camping areas slaughtering everyone even looks there way. Lets now factor in high levels camping low level zones...and while might sound cool.... i get sinking feeling this is going to end up an utter nightmare...
not deterring me from playing the game... but certainly a worry of my own... knowing just how bad pvp gankers can be... i suppose whole " lawl roll pve!" but problem is really like idea of a pvp server but i also like to know who my friends and foes are...this sounds really...really iffy for myself.
http://tera-forums.enmasse.com/forums/general-discussion/topics/PvP-Flag-and-Griefing
Developers need to realize that their success can be guaranteed by the minority pvp community. After all the boring PvE has been done and the devs are finding it hard to put out new and original content/ideas to keep the carebears from whining, what is left to sustain the game's player base? It's the pvpers! We are the community that continues to play, provided the devs build excellent pvp systems, even after the rest of the game gets boring because we don't care about 90% of that junk. Look to history to show how the pvp community can keep games going indefinitely. UO still has a player base. Shadowbane had a player base to the very end and it is so strong even now that the game is being rebuilt by former players in an emulation project. EVE is huge. Pvp is the true key to a game's longevity.
So now that we've established that pvpers are what will keep this game alive for the long run what do we do to ensure that? The concept is two-fold: 1. Do not alter any pvp systems based on suggestions or advice from players that plan to play on pve servers or those with no real meaningful pvp experience(WoW does not count) and 2. There must be accountability in pvp to make it worthwhile. The former point is pretty self-explanatory so let me address the latter. Gankfests without accountability(i.e. any MMO that attempted to be pvp-centric to some degree and totally failed at developing and fleshing the system out[AoC was one]) will ruin any chance a game has at keeping the pvp community. While there will be a few people here that claim to be super hardcore because they played a game where people got camped for hours and whatever else, such a system is not hardcore -- it is boring and runs off real pvpers because it gets old after a week. A system that allows a FFA gankfest to happen can only succeed if those doing the ganking can be held accountable for their actions and be made to feel the repercussions. The prime example of this is Shadowbane. So you decided to come and gank a few lowbies and AFKers in our city? That's awesome because now I will be coming with 10 or 20 guildies to bash down your city walls tonight.
It is repurcussions such as those that allow for in-game politics to develop and keep people interested. It makes people think twice before they kill someone else. It deters random ganking(without stupid flagging systems) but allows for it. There must be a true political metagame in any successful pvp system and that just doesn't happen in a FFA gankfest system that has no accountability. The developers must heed to this because history has proven it to be so.
So here are some of take-away points that the developers need to pay attention to:
1. Get rid of the stupid flagging system and allow the FFA to truly be FFA. The game will have so much more depth if players are always on their toes wondering if that guy up there is friend or foe.
2. The pvp servers must be considered a completely separate entity and any design changes to the game must acknowledge that. Do not make changes to pvp on the pvp servers based on changes from the pve servers, i.e. carebears on a pve server whine that the system is still not carebear enough for them so you implement additional carebear changes.
3. There must, must, must be accountability if you plan to make this game last.
4. Keep the number of pvp servers to a very minimum number. Once the carebears figure out they can't handle or don't want to be on such a server we'd like to still have good server populations.
5. Player inventories/backpacks should be lootable to make pvp more meaningful.
6. If you actually invest the time into fleshing out the pvp system and making this game truly worthy of having pvp servers then you will have a guaranteed subscriber base for the life of the game.
Developers of today must face the fact that unless they are Blizzard, they are not going to keep the carebears' interest very long, at least in the US/EU. Sorry Tera, you are not the next WoW. Nor is any other MMO in the works. Face that fact and develop an amazing game that does not cater to that attempt.
TL;DR - Take your adderall and invest a few minutes to read the post.
p.s. These forums are terribly designed. Hire new web developers.