I didn't mind boxes of mischief being removed from drop tables, but removing them from vendors also removed choices for players.

I really wonder...

How many here actually ran statistical analysis on the crystal market during CBTs when the Boxes of Crystalline Mischief were in the game, and when they were not in OBT and further builds?

How many here know the actual drop rate of crystals from BAMs and from dungeons?

(Aside: I was bored yesterday, so I went to the North Aurum Road and slaughtered about 25 Lightning Kumases. I got about 20 Pentant crystals, with some Kumases dropping multiples and others dropping none. I got several blue items, and some dropped none. Of these, only two of the crystals were Minion crystals, while I acquired multiples of Mutinous, Carving, and normal monster crystals.

This was interspersed by me running Necromancer's Tomb and Cultist's Refuge for the sake of farming superior items, and the crystal drop rate was FAR superior on the Kumases than it was in higher-level dungeons. End Aside.)

There has been an extensive program to spread the concept that returning boxes to the game will fix this, but I can tell you right now that it is highly unlikely any of you have the numbers to back up your claims. I do think the Boxes should return, at least the Transmogrifying and Crystalline ones, but as vendor items, for the purpose of players playing around with them, but that is all. Will it improve the crystal market? I don't think so.

On my server (Dragonfall), two classes of crystals are the most expensive:

Zyrks, any of them; and flat damage increase crystals, such as Carving, Hunter's, Muntinous, Acrimonious, and so forth. Boss defense crystals, Anarchic, are also high. Zyrks dominate the market over any other kind of crystal.

Is the solution Boxes? No, because that is ignoring why these crystals are so expensive in the first place: There is a heightened demand for them, because they are being constantly used for players in endgame dungeons. Go to Cutthroat and Bastion and track the players milling around the trade brokers for a day, and you'll see what I mean. The rarity of the crystal availability (such as Zyrks) depends on them being acquired, and as these involve finite values of time and effort relevant to supply them to the market, they will always be high. How will Boxes change that?

FUBAR indeed.

Not sure what the "right" answer is but the pre-existing answer until such time as the right answer makes itself known was the mischief boxes. Reintroduce them until you have a better solution, as opposed to no solution at all.

@Qilong: well put and while I agree that the mischief boxes are not "the" answer. It's a matter of something being better than nothing at this point and it's not even something new or something novel that requires actual work by anyone. I'd argue against removal of things while the right answer is being researched. A broken system might just be better than no system at all depending on who you ask. Especially these days (see: battleground QQ). I'm not excusing the prevailing attitude these days but I will suggest that to ignore the new lowest common denominator is not necessarily a good idea. While it might not effectively change anything in reality, if it changes the perception of some for the better ever so slightly for a time until the real solution comes forward, I think it's worth leaving in.

+1

Quote: Qilong on 05/28/2012, 07:26 AM - view

Moot point. Level cap in CBT5 was 38. You don't see any level 38 crystals selling for 300g, do you?

What I think people fail to understand is that the crystal market is probably so expensive compared to Korea because less people are geared and people die A LOT more.

In Korea they all had +9-12 everything and could faceroll half the content and they farmed a lot, they lost crystals less and more were on the market.

Right now everyones leveling, learning fights and dying a lot. Just my two cents on the matter.

Quote: Slubber on 05/28/2012, 07:40 AM - view

No, it's because they can reroll crystals, and good crystals are not as scarce.

Quote: rocdog on 05/28/2012, 07:55 AM - view

Well yes, i'm sure that helps but the people constantly dying helps mess up the market as well. Just trying to give alternate explanations. ^-^

I liked boxes and the eggs, although in PvP I realize I'm glad the eggs are gone, now when I fight someone they don't have 1000 pots to use.

One of the issues I see is that equipment becomes obsolete in a couple levels. Everything is replaced. Inflated prices on items that can be used during the leveling to end-game are worthless in a couple levels. Including blues and golds. A gold piece you might keep for a extra level. Crystals I guess stick with ya the longest but they get replaced too.

The only thought I have to keep a piece of armor is due to what it looks like. Personally, I don't think this will happen due to they would have to re-model every race/class with cloth/leather/metal skins. A bit unfortunate.

Quote: vsTerminus on 05/28/2012, 07:38 AM - view

At the beginning of OBT, yes you did. On low-pop servers, yes you do. This is because of the lower influx of crystals to the market. This has nothing to do with Boxes. If you think that adding Boxes in will increase the number of crystals to the market, rather than being kept for players to lose when they die, then you are sadly mistaken.

My argument on the market statistics is meant broadly, not narrowly. The market is comparable, not specific, to the highest available crystal. The highest non-reputation crystals on [I think, any] server will be the most demanded crystals, the increase damage to and reduced damage from boss crystals, as well as normals and Carving, and these are in fact the case. This is because players are holding on to them when they can use them. Healers don't use them, so sell them or hoard them for alts or guildies; Lancers don't really use them, so sell themor hoard them for alts or guildies; and so forth. This reduces the availability of crystals by actions of players, not by availability of drops.

Consider that in all this, EME DOES have the numbers to back up:

1. Times crystal boxes were used,
2. What came out of crystal boxes,
3. Crystals dropping from mobs,
4. Turn around to crystals being destroyed,
5. or turn around to crystals being sold,
6. from players acquiring them from boxes, BAMS, or trading.

Are players farminjg BAMs for crystals to shore up the loss of boxes? I do not think so. Spending my time running around doing dailies, I find that more players are spending their downtime between dungeons milling around towns, not out in the areas farming BAMs. No one is making a consistent effort in Lorcada slaughtering the Giants, or in Veritas slaughtering the Mandrills, or on the Argon Front taking down Akalaths and Gilgashes and whatever those satellite-Hydraths are. They are thus not contributing readily to the crystal market.

I suspect the market is being starved by hoarding, and even then Acrimonious, Carving and Mutinous crystals (the most expensive) aren't really reaching to the 300g mark (or weren't yesterday). Because I don't have a group to farm BAMs with, I tend to run in Concachs and Pentants, and will be using a variety of these in my 60 dungeon runs. I lack the cash to hand over for purchasing higher grade crystals from players trying to even out the other higher bidders. Players are less willing to undercut to make sales, or when they do they are immediately gobbled up ... then put back on the market at inflated prices.

Boxes do not increase the supply of crystals, but rather offer a chance to alter the quality of a crystal, and the cost of reducing the supply of crystals over all. Instead, to reduce the costs of crystals, MORE need to be put on, and I am not seeing players putting more crystals on the Brokerage.

Quote: AinsleyHarriott on 05/27/2012, 11:09 PM - view
do yourself a favor and look up their definitions when you use words that have no context relevant to my dismisal of repeat spam threads.