Enchanting luck is kinda pissing me off now.

Ahicze Profile Options #31

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WolffLaarcen on 06/14/2012, 11:58 PM - view
Unnecessary player frustration resulting from a poorly designed, overly RNG dependent game mechanic?

Working as intended.


Quoting for truth.
Leiloni Profile Options #32

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Krystar on 06/15/2012, 12:11 AM - view
The enchanting system was designed as a reason to excessively reuse content. Basically at max level the only real progression is enchanting your items, and to do this you need to run the instance dozens an dozens of times, first to get the items, then again to enchant them up so they are better than their non-enchantable counterpart.

Then you do this exact same thing again for hard modes, in the same dungeons, and it will be the same thing again with the new 5 mans come out. Sure other MMO's reuse content a lot, but TERA sure is making excessive use of Balders Temple and Fane of Kaprima, whenever I log on thats all I ever see level 60's doing, those who are even still on, and this is for more than a month. Even WoW on release had a bit more variety of crap to do.


I agree, it's bad game design, period. It's also retarded that this enchanted gear makes such a gigantic difference at endgame so it's basically required, PvE or PvP, you have to enchant both sets as high as you can. Why is getting the best gear RNG based? Why does it not require skill? Why does gear matter so much in a skill based game? I'm sorry but these things need to be fixed for the game to survive long term because before the end of the year we'll all have other games to go play that don't have these issues. I'm just waiting for the big patch at the end of the summer to see if it makes things any better, but honestly if the gear system stays the way it is, I'm not sure any new content can make it worth staying. I've played Aion, I don't want to do it again.
Edited by: Leiloni 11 months ago
PhillipVIII Profile Options #33

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It's not a friggin skill based game. It's an item check, dice rolling endgame.

Angrynixon Profile Options #34

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"I keep losing, this casino sucks... you should fix this game so that I can win more often."

This is basically the complaint when you're talking about being unhappy with an RNG system.

There is no way to compromise on RNG because, fundamentally, it never changes. There are always winners, losers, and people like me who generally break even or cut their losses early and then fold and go do something else. It's kind of sad I play that way in casinos too... I play until the casino has paid for my gas and dinner and then I walk away.

The ONLY way to address the concerns of those on the forums who hate the RNG component is to have no RNG at all. Adjusting it up and down all you want does not change anything. In fact, fiddling with the RNG system just makes the game disapointing for different reasons.

What then is the way forward if not RNG ? The only simple option I see is very expensive 100% success enchanting. That meets the criteria of the system being a gold sink, which it is, and also ensures that the determing factor in getting things enchanted is solely time. Everyone pays a lot, everyone has to put time in.

I personally don't care. I don't really win much nor do I lose much. But I will agree that the RNG system by its very nature creates a lop-sided picture of users. The loud minority who are happy with the system because they're thrilled with their luck and want no changes, and the loud minority who fail constantly that want it changed completely.
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How would one make it so enchanting was skill based? It seems like the very idea of it would be RNG in some form or another.
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Korilynn on 06/15/2012, 07:49 AM - view
How would one make it so enchanting was skill based? It seems like the very idea of it would be RNG in some form or another.


I very much doubt it could ever be "skill based" without that process being generally tedious and stupid. The only thing I can think of (that might not be tedious or stupid like the crafting systems that use minigames) is some very difficult boss that drops an item that enchants your item 100% of the time.... Reaching a bit there.
Leiloni Profile Options #37

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Angrynixon on 06/15/2012, 07:45 AM - view


The ONLY way to address the concerns of those on the forums who hate the RNG component is to have no RNG at all. Adjusting it up and down all you want does not change anything. In fact, fiddling with the RNG system just makes the game disapointing for different reasons.

What then is the way forward if not RNG ? The only simple option I see is very expensive 100% success enchanting. That meets the criteria of the system being a gold sink, which it is, and also ensures that the determing factor in getting things enchanted is solely time. Everyone pays a lot, everyone has to put time in.

.


RNG needs to be taken out entirely, I agree. There's no place for it. Instead, make it so that if I do a dungeon I get X amount of badges for each boss I do. Regular Fane and BT can give me T12 badges and maybe HM ET, T13 enchanting badges from HM Fane and BT, T11 from LoT and ET, etc. I can turn in X amount of badges for a +1-+3 enchant, X more for 4-6, then 7-9, and so on. So going from +7 to +8 will require more badges than +1 to +2, to equal the difficulty. Do not make them tradeable. Add in some other way to get enchanting badges for PvP gear (because I sure as hell am not grinding dungeons to enchant my PvP gear). Done.

But honestly, I'm not even sure I like that idea. Gear makes too much of a difference in this game. It needs to matter a lot less than it does. Make it easier to enchant PvE gear for those that want to do dungeons, but make it utterly worthless for PvP and then change PvP gear so it doesn't have such an impact. You only need those enchanted piece to take down progressively harder PvE bosses. There's no need for that stuff in PvP.
Edited by: Leiloni 11 months ago
zeruel1223 Profile Options #38

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Angrynixon on 06/15/2012, 07:52 AM - view
Korilynn on 06/15/2012, 07:49 AM
How would one make it so enchanting was skill based? It seems like the very idea of it would be RNG in some form or another.


I very much doubt it could ever be "skill based" without that process being generally tedious and stupid. The only thing I can think of (that might not be tedious or stupid like the crafting systems that use minigames) is some very difficult boss that drops an item that enchants your item 100% of the time.... Reaching a bit there.

The argument that "rng doesn't belong in this game" is a baseless statement, considering the myriad RNG mechanics that are in so many MMOs, including this one. It certainly isn't the case that enchanting is the only RNG mechanic. That argument is generally just stated by the minority, is repeated within the minority, and then agreed upon by the same minority, who then decide they have made a valid point and that EME is incompetent for not having made the same conclusion.
Leiloni Profile Options #39

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zeruel1223 on 06/15/2012, 07:56 AM - view
Angrynixon on 06/15/2012, 07:52 AM
Korilynn on 06/15/2012, 07:49 AM
How would one make it so enchanting was skill based? It seems like the very idea of it would be RNG in some form or another.


I very much doubt it could ever be "skill based" without that process being generally tedious and stupid. The only thing I can think of (that might not be tedious or stupid like the crafting systems that use minigames) is some very difficult boss that drops an item that enchants your item 100% of the time.... Reaching a bit there.

The argument that "rng doesn't belong in this game" is a baseless statement, considering the myriad RNG mechanics that are in so many MMOs, including this one. It certainly isn't the case that enchanting is the only RNG mechanic. That argument is generally just stated by the minority, is repeated within the minority, and then agreed upon by the same minority, who then decide they have made a valid point and that EME is incompetent for not having made the same conclusion.


Tell me what non-Korean MMO has so many RNG based systems? Most Western games you get your gear after you have put in the required work for it. Grind enough dungeons for badges and kill those bosses enough times et voila, you can buy your first piece. Then you just need to spend money at the AH to enchant and socket said piece and you're good to go. This is only a Korean idea and generally a really bad one to make up for poor game design.

This game is starting to feel like Aion in every way except with a different combat system. Very pretty game with little to no endgame that just requires you to grind the same two dungeons over and over to earn and then enchant/socket your gear (if you're lucky), gear which makes a much larger impact on everything than your class or your personal skill, lack of PvP (and half the PvP they do have is just zerg v zerg), lack of content overall.... I'm ashamed I let myself get sucked into it.
Edited by: Leiloni 11 months ago
Angrynixon Profile Options #40

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zeruel1223 on 06/15/2012, 07:56 AM - view
Angrynixon on 06/15/2012, 07:52 AM
Korilynn on 06/15/2012, 07:49 AM
How would one make it so enchanting was skill based? It seems like the very idea of it would be RNG in some form or another.




I very much doubt it could ever be "skill based" without that process being generally tedious and stupid. The only thing I can think of (that might not be tedious or stupid like the crafting systems that use minigames) is some very difficult boss that drops an item that enchants your item 100% of the time.... Reaching a bit there.


The argument that "rng doesn't belong in this game" is a baseless statement, considering the myriad RNG mechanics that are in so many MMOs, including this one. It certainly isn't the case that enchanting is the only RNG mechanic. That argument is generally just stated by the minority, is repeated within the minority, and then agreed upon by the same minority, who then decide they have made a valid point and that EME is incompetent for not having made the same conclusion.


I never argued that RNG does not belong in this game. I merely put forth the proposition that the concerns of those who dislike RNG (specifically in the enchanting context because that's the context of this thread) could never be remedied by modifying (and not removing) the RNG system and then the question "if not RNG, then what?". I accept that RNG is everywhere in MMOs. I also don't care because as I said, like a large numbef of people, I am in the great rift between the winners circle and the losers pit of despair. I have no strong feelings one way or the other about RNG's continued place in this game as part of the enchanting system.

Also, and I trust you are not ascribing the view that EME(BHS) is incompetent to me, they are most certainly not incompetent for having included RNG in the enchanting system. It provides risks which some people enjoy, and it also provides a gold sink, which is necessary. On the other hand, that does not mean that everyone who feels RNG should not comprise part of the enchanting system is an idiot.
Edited by: Angrynixon 11 months ago