There is no attack speed, only animation speed. And latency has nothing to do with animation only my computer does...
WELL THEN BEST GET OVERCLOCKING BOYS! ITS TIME TO PVP!!!!!
Ahahahahaha.....
P.S still waiting for that 180ms from Australia to Chicago from Tera.exe ingame
Actually... im up for getting that from anyone.
Its midnight, bed time. Thanks for the hilarious entertainment. Leave me something funny for the morning maybe if you can't resist the urge to keep digging your hole.
[quote name='Taemek' at='03/25/2012, 05:59 AM'
Let us get something straight here, there is no attack speed in this game, there is Animation speed and again, the only thing that determines your animation speed is your computer and if its a poor computer it will FPS lag, latency has nothing to do with your animation lag because the second the skill is executed, it executes the animation.
The only thing latency effects in games like this is the delay between you seeing what is going on, period, nothing to do with attack speed what so ever.
The entire game revolves around animation speed, period.[/quote]
Thanks Taemek, that is good to know!! Has anyone else had it where it skips an attack animation, particularly in chained skills? Would that be the game's programming accounting for latency? If so, that a winner for me/subscription :).
There is no attack speed, only animation speed. And latency has nothing to do with animation only my computer does...
WELL THEN BEST GET OVERCLOCKING BOYS! ITS TIME TO PVP!!!!!
Ahahahahaha.....
P.S still waiting for that 180ms from Australia to Chicago from Tera.exe ingame
Actually... im up for getting that from anyone.
Its midnight, bed time. Thanks for the hilarious entertainment. Leave me something funny for the morning maybe if you can't resist the urge to keep digging your hole.
This isn't the year 2000......and you are just taking me out of context and purposely ignoring my facts which prove you wrong.
To truely see how much delay you have ingame, debuff a mob that has a duration, watch the timer go down, you will notice the icon fall off before its stated time, ie, the time between 1 and zero is almost non exsistant compaired to 2 to 1 which is clearly visable. That is your delay reflected by your ping.
For me, the delay is 0.7 seconds, so for 220ms+/- I have a 0.7 second delay, now I couldn't careless about the theroy crafters or mathematicians who want to use pen and paper to make a argument, the real world results in practical is all I care about.
Again, the human reaction time for anticipating something is 60 - 90ms, considering our ping is 220ish or so is not that bad and anyone trying to form a argument around having a handicap on that needs to let it go.
I am going to leave you with this Jemila, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about, there is no attack speed in this game, it is animation speed and the two don't even mix. Let us put it into prespective for people like Jemila who have trouble, for every 5 seconds worth of gameplay, a person with under 100ms get 4.7 attacks off. Now for every 5 seconds worth of gameplay for a person with >200ms, they get 3.5 attacks off. We are down 1.5 attacks, but, do we stand there in PvP and fight toe-to-toe like we are PvEing? Simple anwser is, no. Let us also clarify, we aren't attack every second in Tera ethier.
I can't relate to animation skipping, I haven't had it happen. Generally, animation skipping or speeding up like its going fast forward is due to your lag, like ISP issues.
Taemek, seriously mate just admit you are mistaken in your understanding of TERA's combat system and how it is impacted by latency, and move on.
All anyone reading this thread needs to understand is the following, which you can easily prove by asking an American player (or Korean for KTERA) to assist you in testing.
1. The number of attacks you can execute in a given timeframe is limited by your latency (i.e. it is inversely proportional). The lower your latency, the more attacks you can do. For example, a player with 50ms might be capable of executing 12 attacks of a certain sequence in a 20 second timeframe, whereas as a player with 300ms will only be capable of 8 attacks. The severity of the relationship between latency and attack quantity is unique to TERA, and it is a fundamental flaw in the design.
2. The action combat system when applied to defence/evasion in PvP and difficult PvE content is highly problematic, when considering the following timing/reaction events: blocking or evading a telegraphed attack, moving from a pending damage zone on the ground. The higher the latency, the increased chance you take the appropriate action within the time expected *as it appears on your screen* (i.e. client-side), but in fact have not done so within the *real*, unseen (server-side) time, and therefore take the full extent of the damage.
Item #2 above is also seen in more traditional MMOs in higher latency scenarios (e.g. moving out of the fire in a WoW raid encounter), but in TERA there is a much higher frequency and pervasiveness of these events throughout all aspects of the game.
You are an idiot if you try to argue either of the above points. They are easily demonstratable and are an issue to highly skilled players playing with 250ms+ latency in KTERA every day.
Furthermore, anyone from Oceania who says they get a solid 180ms to Chicago hosts is full of crap.
Taemek, seriously mate just admit you are mistaken in your understanding of TERA's combat system and how it is impacted by latency, and move on.
All anyone reading this thread needs to understand is the following, which you can easily prove by asking an American player (or Korean for KTERA) to assist you in testing.
1. The number of attacks you can execute in a given timeframe is limited by your latency (i.e. it is inversely proportional). The lower your latency, the more attacks you can do. For example, a player with 50ms might be capable of executing 12 attacks of a certain sequence in a 20 second timeframe, whereas as a player with 300ms will only be capable of 8 attacks. The severity of the relationship between latency and attack quantity is unique to TERA, and it is a fundamental flaw in the design.
2. The action combat system when applied to defence/evasion in PvP and difficult PvE content is highly problematic, when considering the following timing/reaction events: blocking or evading a telegraphed attack, moving from a pending damage zone on the ground. The higher the latency, the increased chance you take the appropriate action within the time expected *as it appears on your screen* (i.e. client-side), but in fact have not done so within the *real*, unseen (server-side) time, and therefore take the full extent of the damage.
Item #2 above is also seen in more traditional MMOs in higher latency scenarios (e.g. moving out of the fire in a WoW raid encounter), but in TERA there is a much higher frequency and pervasiveness of these events throughout all aspects of the game.
You are an idiot if you try to argue either of the above points. They are easily demonstratable and are an issue to highly skilled players playing with 250ms+ latency in KTERA every day.
Furthermore, anyone from Oceania who says they get a solid 180ms to Chicago hosts is full of crap.
It has nothing to do with my understanding of the game, I understand it full well, animation type gameplay has nothing to do with attack speed type gameplay.
However, I do relate to the latency issue, I am not saying it is not exsistant, I see and feel the lag you are talking about as I breifly pointed out above using my example using a 0.7 second delay @ 220ms:
For every 5 seconds of gameplay a US player gets, they get 4.7 attacks.
For every 5 seconds of gameplay a AUS player gets, they get 3.5 attacks.
Again let us clarify we arent attacking every second in Tera and this is but a mere example nor are we standing there taking a face pounding like it is PvE in PvP.
The only idoitic issue here is that people can't grasp the fact that Asian games and designed and built upon the fundamentals that everyone has under 100ms ping, take these games outside a Korean network and what do you think is going to happen? Seriously, wtf did anyone think was going to happen?
Let us take a step back here shall we, what are we arguing here? We are arguing the fact that certain people are claiming the *speed* at which a skill is executed is due to latency claiming they *seen* someone elses animation go faster, well, let us look to the game mechanics shall we. What is in the game that increases Animation Speed? Plenty of items and Glyhps.
Without knowing the full facts, people coming here claiming Animation Speed is effected by latency (which we both know it isn't which is what I have been saying all along), these people need to take a step back and look at how they can increase thier animation speed with what is ingame.
As we both agree on, yes, latency lowers the amount of attacks you can successfully execute in a certain period of time, I never argued that. I simply argued the above.
If I had to theorise (because I'm not sure of the exact coding issue at play here), I think it has something to do with "delay penatlies" becoming a factor if the next chained attack (either auto-attack or skill) does not register server-side within a certain period of time.
For example, a type of attack (animation) takes 3 seconds to fully complete without any chaining. If followed up with another attack, the game will "alter" the animation morphing between the attacks to allow for a free-flowing, fast execution of the sequence - BUT only if the game registers your button press within a certain number of milliseconds after the first attack.
Note: I'm not talking about the obvious speed bonus to skill chaining you get If executing two related skills reasonably quickly together (this is easy enough to achieve provided you are under appx. < 250ms latency). This is something different, much more aggressive/demanding in enforcement - although it's likely the same underlying principle at play.
The main point is: if you have latency beyond a certain level, no amount/speed of button mashing will allow the server-side to register your timely execution of the next attack, and you get stung with a small penalty to execution time. This is most noticeable with auto-attacks - the full animation will complete before the next auto-attack is allowed.
If you look at players with "local" latency, their attacks meld together seamlessly in a flurry of chaining. It's beautiful to see, and this elegance is how the game is designed to play. For us, the act of of chaining attacks (especially auto-attacks) is a clunky mess, its goddamn disappointing.
If I had to theorise (because I'm not sure of the exact coding issue at play here), I think it has something to do with "delay penatlies" becoming a factor if the next chained attack (either auto-attack or skill) does not register server-side within a certain period of time.
For example, a type of attack (animation) takes 3 seconds to fully complete without any chaining. If followed up with another attack, the game will "alter" the animation morphing between the attacks to allow for a free-flowing, fast execution of the sequence - BUT only if the game registers your button press within a certain number of milliseconds after the first attack.
Note: I'm not talking about the obvious speed bonus to skill chaining you get If executing two related skills reasonably quickly together (this is easy enough to achieve provided you are under appx. < 250ms latency). This is something different, much more aggressive/demanding in enforcement - although it's likely the same underlying principle at play.
The main point is: if you have latency beyond a certain level, no amount/speed of button mashing will allow the server-side to register your timely execution of the next attack, and you get stung with a small penalty to execution time. This is most noticeable with auto-attacks - the full animation will complete before the next auto-attack is allowed.
If you look at players with "local" latency, their attacks meld together seamlessly in a flurry of chaining. It's beautiful to see, and this elegance is how the game is designed to play. For us, the act of of chaining attacks (especially auto-attacks) is a clunky mess, its goddamn disappointing.
Correct and it has been like this ever since UO took it out of turn based pvp MUD systems we use to see in the early 1990's.
There is no defeating it, there is only accepting it and learning to cope with it, the downside here is that games like Tera, Aion, Lineage and other old school MMORPG's where there was no skill queue system, it is clearly more visable due to there being no breathing space, we are forced into a gameplay enviroment that demands heightened awareness and fast paced thinking.
Taemek, seriously mate just admit you are mistaken in your understanding of TERA's combat system and how it is impacted by latency, and move on.
All anyone reading this thread needs to understand is the following, which you can easily prove by asking an American player (or Korean for KTERA) to assist you in testing.
1. The number of attacks you can execute in a given timeframe is limited by your latency (i.e. it is inversely proportional). The lower your latency, the more attacks you can do. For example, a player with 50ms might be capable of executing 12 attacks of a certain sequence in a 20 second timeframe, whereas as a player with 300ms will only be capable of 8 attacks. The severity of the relationship between latency and attack quantity is unique to TERA, and it is a fundamental flaw in the design.
2. The action combat system when applied to defence/evasion in PvP and difficult PvE content is highly problematic, when considering the following timing/reaction events: blocking or evading a telegraphed attack, moving from a pending damage zone on the ground. The higher the latency, the increased chance you take the appropriate action within the time expected *as it appears on your screen* (i.e. client-side), but in fact have not done so within the *real*, unseen (server-side) time, and therefore take the full extent of the damage.
Item #2 above is also seen in more traditional MMOs in higher latency scenarios (e.g. moving out of the fire in a WoW raid encounter), but in TERA there is a much higher frequency and pervasiveness of these events throughout all aspects of the game.
You are an idiot if you try to argue either of the above points. They are easily demonstratable and are an issue to highly skilled players playing with 250ms+ latency in KTERA every day.
Furthermore, anyone from Oceania who says they get a solid 180ms to Chicago hosts is full of crap.
It has nothing to do with my understanding of the game, I understand it full well, animation type gameplay has nothing to do with attack speed type gameplay.
However, I do relate to the latency issue, I am not saying it is not exsistant, I see and feel the lag you are talking about as I breifly pointed out above using my example using a 0.7 second delay @ 220ms:
For every 5 seconds of gameplay a US player gets, they get 4.7 attacks.
For every 5 seconds of gameplay a AUS player gets, they get 3.5 attacks.
Again let us clarify we arent attacking every second in Tera and this is but a mere example nor are we standing there taking a face pounding like it is PvE in PvP.
The only idoitic issue here is that people can't grasp the fact that Asian games and designed and built upon the fundamentals that everyone has under 100ms ping, take these games outside a Korean network and what do you think is going to happen? Seriously, wtf did anyone think was going to happen?
Let us take a step back here shall we, what are we arguing here? We are arguing the fact that certain people are claiming the *speed* at which a skill is executed is due to latency claiming they *seen* someone elses animation go faster, well, let us look to the game mechanics shall we. What is in the game that increases Animation Speed? Plenty of items and Glyhps.
Without knowing the full facts, people coming here claiming Animation Speed is effected by latency (which we both know it isn't which is what I have been saying all along), these people need to take a step back and look at how they can increase thier animation speed with what is ingame.
As we both agree on, yes, latency lowers the amount of attacks you can successfully execute in a certain period of time, I never argued that. I simply argued the above.
But you were going about your point misleadingly. I, no, nobody claimed that latency slowed down animation speed. I talked about attack speed, which you denied existence of. It's just a question of defining attack speed. By attack speed I'm referring to the speed at which you subsequently use attacks. And obviously, latency plays a part in it because every single game involving a network i.e online will be affected by latency. The server won't know you're attacking until you, the client, tells them. If it takes a few extra milliseconds for it to know, then you are being slowed down.
But you were going about your point misleadingly. I, no, nobody claimed that latency slowed down animation speed. I talked about attack speed, which you denied existence of. It's just a question of defining attack speed. By attack speed I'm referring to the speed at which you subsequently use attacks. And obviously, latency plays a part in it because every single game involving a network i.e online will be affected by latency. The server won't know you're attacking until you, the client, tells them. If it takes a few extra milliseconds for it to know, then you are being slowed down.
Careful... he may try change subject again because he lost his original argument pages ago. The level of desperation is pretty extreme in people who get shut-down/proven wrong so easily. I think I saw this guy trying to throw down his "how much mmo experience do you have, I know korean mmo's" card earlier lol
Taemek on 03/25/2012, 02:05 PM
Correct and it has been like this ever since UO took it out of turn based pvp MUD systems we use to see in the early 1990's.
There is no defeating it, there is only accepting it and learning to cope with it, the downside here is that games like Tera, Aion, Lineage and other old school MMORPG's where there was no skill queue system, it is clearly more visable due to there being no breathing space, we are forced into a gameplay enviroment that demands heightened awareness and fast paced thinking.
Ok, so you are happy to go with it and learn to cope blah blah blah. That's cool man why didn't you just say that from the start instead of all the embarrassment you put yourself through.
Myself and other players will do all we can to improve our performance and potential, if you don't want to be part of that then walk away after saying you think it is fine. You could of just started with "I do or don't support the effort to try and get a west coast server" And skip all the [filtered]ness you put out.
We started with discussing the Australian implications of latency and how fast it lets you attack, to how you didn't think it existed despite it being proved, to some bs about animation speed vs attack speed and korean mmo's, to how there is no attack speed only animation speed which is governed by how powerful my pc is(amazingly irrelevant fairyland off topic change there lol).
To finally "well what do you expect for living in Australia, I think it is fine" Dam man.. how long did it take you to get there? Please tell me you are done now? I don't know how much more you could change your stance from this point on. No one will remember you or me in a couple weeks time so there is no need to repair bruised whatever.
We stated clearly what the problem is, why and how it occurs, with video evidence posted and some possible solutions. It was posted by multiple people as being the latency between attacks as the cause of the trouble. Not sure wtf your entire campaign to argue these facts was about as the whole thing is pretty dam simple to understand. Enough trolls.
EDIT: Still waiting for your 180ms to chicago ingame proof, but I think I will let that slide for sake of you going away :)
Moving on:
There are options available to help minimise latencies impact. Heck it is a massive part of many modern mmo's design. We don't live in the past. These companies learnt a long time ago about how people felt about lagging in US market. But in this game latency has a direct impact in-between each attack without any form of minimum attack speed buffer to help negate this between attack lag. Thus asking for options to bring a server closer isn't something we should be reprimanded for inquiring about. I am amazed at the mentality of those who think otherwise.
There are plenty of reasonable ways to approach this that don't involve outrageous demands or heated arguments. Simply go back to page 1 to observe where we started off.