Lancers' status in the new patch

Nanniro Profile Options #1

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Let me start off with saying that this isn't a whine! Just a real question.

Okay, the upcoming patch will be placing warriors into a much stronger defense role. With their block, they can absorb damage they cannot avoid, and avoid damage they cannot absorb. When played correctly, a warrior tank is far more versatile than a lancer tank. As they stand right now, they can do decent dps, maintain good threat, and avoid most of the damage. Adding this block will be a great thing for warrior, as it lets them have a solid place as a tank.

However, what does this mean for lancers? If a warrior can do damage, block, dodge, and hold threat better than a lancer, why would anyone ever want a lancer in the party? Will lancers just become obsolete and ridiculed? Or am I missing some information here. My curiosity mainly comes from the fact I was levelling my 39 lancer last night, and thought of this. If a warrior might be able to do my job better, why should lancers exist?

So tl;dr, when warriors get block and improved skills, what good would a lancer still bring to a party? Would they still be sought out, or even wanted?
ReiKoji Profile Options #2

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This is a balance problem I foresee as well. You could have a lancer tank with a warrior dpsing in your party, but you cant have a warrior tank with a lancer dpsing in your party...
Arugess Profile Options #3

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Arugess Lvl.48
Celestial Hills - Roleplay (PVE)
Human Berserker
I suspect the warrior block simply isn't going to be as good as Lancer block. Just like Berserker block, Warrior block will probably simply just not absorb as much damage as lancer block - of course we'll have to see the changes implemented to know what the truth will be.

I wouldn't be surprised (or disappointed either) if there was a cooldown associated with Warrior block.

Having a 60 warrior myself ( and 42 lancer), I would actually prefer no block for Warriors, and instead have a mechanic that resets the cooldown on Evasive Roll when you successfully evade a monster's attack. I know they are looking to remove the 5 second cooldown on evasive roll altogether, but to me that kinda kills a bit more of the skill component than I hoped.
Zrehael Profile Options #4

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Kaeldur Lvl.60
Celestial Hills - Roleplay (PVE)
Aman Lancer
A solution my guildies thought of was that a warrior's block should act less like a block and more like a parry. For instance, a move requiring a lot of finesse. Rather that being able to hold down the button and keep blocking, like a lancer or berserker does, you're only able to block for that short instance, meaning you really have to time it with the hit and dodge everything else.

Put that kind of block mechanic on a cooldown and make it maybe a little less effective than the berserker's block (You're an evasive class, you shouldn't be blocking all the time) in terms of absorbing damage, and I think that would work rather nicely.
Jayrune Profile Options #5

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Nanniro on 06/22/2012, 07:32 AM - view
Let me start off with saying that this isn't a whine! Just a real question.

Okay, the upcoming patch will be placing warriors into a much stronger defense role. With their block, they can absorb damage they cannot avoid, and avoid damage they cannot absorb. When played correctly, a warrior tank is far more versatile than a lancer tank. As they stand right now, they can do decent dps, maintain good threat, and avoid most of the damage. Adding this block will be a great thing for warrior, as it lets them have a solid place as a tank.

However, what does this mean for lancers? If a warrior can do damage, block, dodge, and hold threat better than a lancer, why would anyone ever want a lancer in the party? Will lancers just become obsolete and ridiculed? Or am I missing some information here. My curiosity mainly comes from the fact I was levelling my 39 lancer last night, and thought of this. If a warrior might be able to do my job better, why should lancers exist?

So tl;dr, when warriors get block and improved skills, what good would a lancer still bring to a party? Would they still be sought out, or even wanted?


Well remember, Lancers are getting a new backstep ability. As others have theorized, Warrior block won't be able to absorb quite as much damage (most likely), but have more evades that are more flexible, like evasive role which you can pick your direction. Lancers will most likely still have the biggest block absorb, but they will also get a backstep to quickly "get-out-of-dodge" when a boss is about to use a WTFOMGBBQ attack that cannot be absorbed.

The concern about dps output is still in the air, but Lancers are getting that added mobility to compete with the warriors abundant evasion now that warriors are getting a block.

Plus, it's not certain how much stamina is drained for the various abilities, it would not surprise me if lancer block drains less stam than war block for balancing purposes. we won't know until we try them both in action.
Lieva Profile Options #6

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Hoid Lvl.60
Tempest Reach (PVE)
Popori Mystic
Does a warrior in defensive stance do more damage than a lancer?

We have extremely limited information on the class changes as a whole. So, any speculation into the balance between a warrior and a lancer are just that, speculation. Because we just don't know enough yet.
Tonbbery Profile Options #7

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@OP: Warrior tanking will be like Ninja tanking in FFXI, Lancer tanking will be like Paladin tanking in FFXI. Room for both exists, so i would not worry much. A tank's job is to a) hold hate, b) not die first hit. So if tank cover's a and b job done.

Let me divide it further:
Lancer in a fight boss: 80% Defensive 20% Offensive : +/- X on each end depending on fight.
I have not played War so compare that to how a warrior would tank. So question is how much Defense are you willing to drop to boost Offensive.
LittleIcebreaker Profile Options #8

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Just as Jayrune pointed out, Lancers are also getting a few updates as well. To not count these in when comparing a Warrior tank and Lancer tank would easily make the earlier seem a little out of balance.

The biggest perk for a Lancer to me is still the plate equipment.

I'm going to have to step in line with Tonbbery here and use the comparison of Paladins and Ninja's from FFXI. Paladins were the warhorses of FFXI tanking. They took lots of damage. While Ninja's were the fragile (insert fragile breed of horse here)'s of FFXI. They absolutely couldn't take damage and would use job abilities to avoid damage entirely. Both were 100% effective. Two different playstyles, and you had to have the appropriate setup to enjoy the full potential of both.
Edited by: LittleIcebreaker 11 months ago
Alexisia Profile Options #9

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My thoughts are this.

If Lancer ends up "worse" than a tank, it might get left behind in "hardcore, L33t" groups. However, most guilds aren't going to abandon their Lancer's... and the majority of LFD groups just want a -tank.- They don't care which, just something that will finally get their queue's down under an hour.
ReiKoji Profile Options #10

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Lieva on 06/22/2012, 08:45 AM - view
Does a warrior in defensive stance do more damage than a lancer?

We have extremely limited information on the class changes as a whole. So, any speculation into the balance between a warrior and a lancer are just that, speculation. Because we just don't know enough yet.


They do actually. 1) warriors weapons have more damage stats on them than lancer 2) warriors weapons have more base attack than lancer 3) warrior has more base power and crit chance than lancer.... They dont do as much damage as they do while in offensive stance, but they still do more than a lancer can do.

As a lancer, I would never be able to really see warrior tanking in action other than in videos. Our weapon stats alone are meant for threating, not for damaging, and I wouldn't have the power or crit rate that warrior would get in their offensive stance alone, so i would just be a useless addition...
Edited by: ReiKoji 11 months ago