Please change the Masterwork system

Gangaloo Profile Options #281

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Gangaloo Lvl.65
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Elin Lancer


LOL - I have no problem reading or comprehending.

YOU have the problem. YOU are not acquiring gear upgrades at an acceptable pace for YOU.

Thus spawning all you whiny BS.

YOU feel you are entitled to more than what you have.

YOU are the only one with a problem.



I have already stated that I'm more than happy with a happy medium RNG system that forces me to progress at the same rate I currently am.
JerryBoyle Profile Options #282

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Terrin Lvl.60
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'*No blaming no arguing please. I'm trying to ask for a change in masterwork system*'

So what happened here?
Kultra Profile Options #283

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Jarvan Lvl.65
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Elin Lancer
Spikoli came and called everyone an entitled whiney cry baby, we then proceeded to try to reason with him and realized he is probably an NCSoft employee who gets paid to troll forums.
0phiuchus Profile Options #284

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Gangaloo on 10/23/2012, 03:59 PM - view

Please stop stretching the page by dissecting posts more than it needs to be.

WoW has a lot of subscribers because it was well advertised and at the time it came out, was the only real MMO of its time, since then it has made history and gotten a lot of advertising and reputation(both bad and good, but IMO mostly horrible), that is why it still has so many subscribers, in actually the game is purely for the casual gamer, there is nothing about WoW that would bring joy to a hardcore gamers.

as casual gamers are, most casual gamers are probly first time MMO players, or just don't have a lot of time, and most people already know about WoW and how famous it is so they are inclined to play it because of that.

There is no need to decrease the RNG, we could add that enchantments could be like lvling up, you can either enchant your items, which has a RNG but is faster, or you can lvl up through fighting monsters which raises the item's enchantment lvl at the cost for a lot longer amount of time.

I am reading your posts properly and they are pretty outrageous, you are just not looking at it properly.

I have been trying to compromise, but reducing the RNG until there isn't almost anything left (you know because basically there only only 2 processes that uses RNG anyways) isn't the way to go, making new pathways to choose from is. just because you don't like something doesn't mean everyone has to suffer and have it removed because you hate it.

but the main main problem with your posts:
- no willingness to compromise with the RNG in those areas of the game, they will never go away or get any less hold on those areas of the game.period.
- You call out people who you label "24/7" players it just goes to show ignorance when that is humanly impossibly without the person collapsing from exhaustion, it just makes you sound over-dramatic and unreasonable.
Edited by: 0phiuchus over 5 years ago
Gangaloo Profile Options #285

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Gangaloo Lvl.65
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Elin Lancer


Please stop stretching the page by dissecting posts more than it needs to be.



You can't tell me what to do.



WoW has a lot of subscribers because it was well advertised and at the time it came out, was the only real MMO of its time, since then it has made history and gotten a lot of advertising and reputation(both bad and good, but IMO mostly horrible), that is why it still has so many subscribers, in actually the game is purely for the casual gamer, there is nothing about WoW that would bring joy to a hardcore gamers.



No WoW was not the only real MMO of its time. That's totally wrong.

Did you ever play Vanilla WoW? Less than 1% of the WoW population killed the 4 horsemen let alone cleared Naxxramas. Very few even cleared AQ40 (I think Blizzard said 2%?)

Few people even cleared BWL.

WoW wasn't originally built for the casual gamer. They changed it's direction mid way through Burning Crusade and amplified it during WotlK.

Sorry but your assumptions there are wrong.



as casual gamers are, most casual gamers are probly first time MMO players, or just don't have a lot of time, and most people already know about WoW and how famous it is so they are inclined to play it because of that.



Maybe. You don't know for sure.



There is no need to decrease the RNG, we could add that enchantments could be like lvling up, you can either enchant your items, which has a RNG but is faster, or you can lvl up through fighting monsters which raises the item's enchantment lvl at the cost for a lot longer amount of time.

I am reading your posts properly and they are pretty outrageous, you are just not looking at it properly.



None of my posts are outrageous. I'm explaining to you now why Tera has excessive RNG. Other MMOs have done just fine without resorting to the same level of RNG that Tera has.

If the RNG in Tera is fine, why has En Masse taken measures to reduce it?

Oh... because they're losing subscribers...



I have been trying to compromise, but reducing the RNG until there isn't almost anything left (you know because basically there only only 2 processes that uses RNG anyways) isn't the way to go, making new pathways to choose from is. just because you don't like something doesn't mean everyone has to suffer and have it removed because you hate it.



Who said anything about reducing RNG until there's none left? This is why I say you're not reading my posts properly. How do you know it's not the way to go anyways? The success of other MMOs that don't have nearly as bad RNG as Tera and ones that are monumentally more hard core have had a bigger player base than Tera currently has.

I'm also not saying we should change the RNG system because I don't like something. I'm saying this because Tera has been losing subscribers quite rapidly. We are now down to 3 servers. En Masse has admitted there's something wrong with the subscription base by toning down the RNG.

I don't want to see Tera die. However, I am in NO WAY saying RNG needs to be completely removed.



but the main main problem with your posts:
- no willingness to compromise with the RNG in those areas of the game, they will never go away or get any less hold on those areas of the game.period.
- You call out people who you label "24/7" players it just goes to show ignorance when that is humanly impossibly without the person collapsing from exhaustion, it just makes you sound over-dramatic and unreasonable.



Wow you are REALLY not reading my posts. Please just go away.

I am calling them 24/7 players in response to SPIKOLI calling them that. I also call them "no lifers" in RESPONSE to SPIKOLI calling them that. Those were NOT my words. Are you trolling?

Who said I'm not willing to compromise? I said I want a HAPPY MEDIUM. HAPPY MEDIUM. THAT MEANS A COMPROMISE.

If you can't read, don't post.
Yurian Profile Options #286

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Let's play nice folks. Disagreements are fine but keep it civil without name calling. Thanks!
0phiuchus Profile Options #287

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Gangaloo on 10/23/2012, 05:48 PM - view

you know enough being nice and I don't care if this gets me in trouble.

You know what, maybe you are Spikoli on another account just to look dramatic posting with yourself because your a grade A douchebag. you don't even have the courtesy not to stretch the pages for the forum/mod's sake. you say things, then you back off like you do not say it. you keep being an [filtered] and spouting you are willing to compromise yet nothing you say is anywhere near compromise.

and how about you read my posts.
...but reducing the RNG until there isn't almost anything left...


so before you go on that I am just not reading your posts, you better read mine then otherwise be deemed an aimless hypocrite. i never said until its gone, i said until it's almost gone. there is only TWO PRIMARY FUNCTIONS on tera that uses RNG, that is it, it is not a lot.

I even offered a suggestion and instead you go on to highlight any detail you could get your hands on to go on the offensive.

compromise? bull[filtered], if anyone on this thread is trolling it's you and I'm the idiot one for getting sucked up into it.

I done responding to such lowlife.

Edited by: 0phiuchus over 5 years ago - Reason: flammatory
Gangaloo Profile Options #288

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Gangaloo Lvl.65
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Elin Lancer
No you're not reading my posts properly. Going to keep saying it until you do. The fact that you said this:

- view


- You call out people who you label "24/7" players it just goes to show ignorance when that is humanly impossibly without the person collapsing from exhaustion, it just makes you sound over-dramatic and unreasonable.



Is complete proof that you are not reading properly.

Read my last response to you.

Ok so you said ALMOST nothing left. So what?

Still doesn't change the fact that I never said that. I said Happy Medium.

As I said, the above quote just shows you don't understand my posts at all. You are taking everything out of context because you are getting confused between the posters. If you had actually read the argument between myself and Spikoli you would SEE who called them "no lifers" and 24/7 first. It sure as hell was not me.

Please just read the posts. You are the one making outrageous claims now. Not me.

- view


I done responding to such lowlife.



Speak for yourself kid. I really don't want to be responding to someone that came into this thread, starts telling me I'm saying things I'm not, then continues to refuse to comprehend anything.

Good riddance. You're a waste of my time.
Edited by: Gangaloo over 5 years ago
synaesthetic Profile Options #289

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Let's take a look at how much RNG the game actually has and where it could and should be reduced.

- Loot table RNG

This RNG is fine. Every RPG, be it single player or multiplayer, has loot tables where some of the items are random drop determined by a loot table. This is fine, and nobody really has much of a problem with this.

- Boss mechanic RNG

This RNG is also fine. A 100% fully-scripted fight is not that much fun. Once you've done it several times, it becomes rote memorization and thus boring. Mixing up boss abilities and attacks and making some of the mechanics randomized to some degree adds replay value and makes the encounters worth completing more than once.

- Enchanting RNG

This RNG is not fine, and should be removed in favor of a progessive player-driven system, such as one using crafting--especially since the economy of the game heavily depends upon the currency sink and the currency movement centered around enchanting.

Enchanting should be part of crafting. Each character, at level 11, receives a quest in Velika to pick a "master craft." This master craft can be skilled to ~500 instead of 410, and crafting quests cannot be used to skill beyond 410. This master craft can be changed once per month for a steep fee in gold.

Master craftsmen can enchant their gear and the gear of other players based on the craft they mastered--i.e. a master focuscrafter can enchant sorcerer discs, priest staves, mystic scepters and archer bows. Enchanting gear is just like crafting a piece of gear--it requires alkahest purchased from an NPC vendor, runes, gathered materials, special drops from bosses (for higher-level enchants) and enchanting materials extracted from unwanted equipment (be it crafted or dropped).

There is no RNG in this enchanting, and no chance of failure, but the "materials cost" is significantly higher. For example, if one wanted to enchant a T13 weapon to +9 from +8, they would need 130 units of (insert weapon type raw material), 130 boss runes, 130 uncommon boss runes, 13 refined alkahest, 130 weapon power shards extracted from T13 weapons and a rep-purchased item from (class-appropriate faction).

Higher levels of enchanting--masterwork levels +10, +11 and +12--have a cooldown of 24, 48 and 96 hours respectively, to gently gate the players and raise the value of a high-level master craftsman.

Master alchemists cannot enchant anything, but they can do other useful things, such as create special rare-grade crystals, crystalbind, new powerful consumables (class-specific ones could be fun) and arunic and veteran's panaceas. They can also craft "oils" that work similar to dyes, and give a certain color glow to weapons that override the base glow of an enchant (say someone has a +12 weapon that naturally glows red, and they want it to glow pink, white or some other color).

- Masterworking RNG

This is another form of RNG that shouldn't exist in its current form. Masterworking as it is makes no goddamned sense at all. Instead, masterworking should be changed to be a quest line through Muhrak, the legendary blacksmith in Habere.

The quest chain would be activated by talking to Muhrak's assistant, who would then give the player several tasks to complete, gathering materials from gathering nodes, normal mobs, BAMs, dungeon bosses and world bosses. These would be turned in to advance the quest to the next stage, which would involve obtaining rare items from instance bosses with a reasonably low drop rate (somewhere around 10%), and after all of the required materials were obtained, Muhrak would reforge the character's weapon or armor and render it "masterwork" quality.

This, combined with the enchanting change and the removal of random bonuses, would also enable players to actually use their masterwork-capable gear as soon as they get it, and enchant it up to +9 while they work on obtaining the materials to complete the masterwork questline. Currently, most people get their new shiny T14 masterwork-capable item and don't even bother using it until after it's been masterworked (if they can even get it masterworked).

- Crystal RNG/Death Penalty

This is another form of RNG that is simply excessive. The best crystals--those most required by nearly all classes at endgame--are not readily available, nor are they farmable per se as they are random world drops from level 58 and higher monsters of any and all types.

This sort of randomness needs to just go away. All crystals should be available from the NPC vendors, including creating common (normal and "pristine") variants of the most sought-after crystals, such as Hunter's (bonus damage to normal monsters), Mutinous (bonus damage to boss monsters), Carving (bonus critical chance) and Anarchic (bonus damage reduction vs. boss monsters).

"Fine" variants (uncommon crystals) that are the most required for endgame content should simply be sold from the Vanarch Specialty Store vendor for 40 gold each. Not only will this reduce TERA's incredibly punishing death penalty, but it will also increase the tax revenue of Vanarchs, thus incentivizing more guild masters to actually run for vanarchy!

- Resealing (random bonus) RNG

By far one of the most egregious examples of pointless RNG. Resealing has NO OTHER POINT except to waste our time. There is no real variety brought to the table here--it's merely a clicky-clicky RNG nonsense put in to further mask the lack of real content.

Items should not have random bonuses. They should have static, non-changing bonuses. This will not only remove a frustrating layer of randomness from the game, but it will promote gear variety, and enable the developers to more easily tune content knowing that players are not able to game the system by duplicating desired bonuses with the current system.

For example, Eye to Extinction is a non-masterworkable Tier 13 sorcerer disc. It has several static bonuses and four re-rollable random bonuses. Due to the current system's inconsistencies, it is possible to duplicate bonuses using the re-rollable bonus slots.

The current Eye to Extinction is as follows:

Attack modifier: 3668
Impact modifier: 17012
+4.5% damage to boss monsters
+5.1% damage when attacking monsters from the rear
+3% damage to your highest-threat target
+5.3% damage to prone monsters
+6% damage to enraged monsters
Random bonus
At +3: Random bonus
At +6: Random bonus
At +9: Random bonus

Under the new system, it could look something like this:

Pyrokinesist's Focus
Tier 13 Sorcerer Disc

Attack modifier: 3668
Impact modifier: 17012
Increases damage dealt to boss monsters by 4.5%.
Increases damage dealt to monsters when attacking from the rear by 5.1%.
Increases damage dealt to your highest-threat target by 3%.
Increases damage dealt to prone monsters by 5.3%.
Increases damage dealt to enraged monsters by 6%.
Increases attack speed by 8%.

At +3: Increases Power attribute by 3.
At +6: Increases critical strike rating by 6.
At +9: Increases Fireblast damage by 10%.

(Bonuses used are arbitrary and simply for illustration purposes)

This could make for more gear variety, especially by making certain equipment empower certain skills. This would mean more gear would need to be obtained for "ultimate min-maxer" status, and swapped out based on situation, thusly:

Circle of Frost
Tier 13 Sorcerer Disc

Attack modifier: 3668
Impact modifier: 17012
Increases damage dealt to boss monsters by 4.5%.
Increases damage dealt to normal monsters by 4.5%.
Increases damage dealt to monsters when attacking from the rear by 5.1%.
Increases damage dealt to enraged monsters by 6%.
Restores 0.2% of your total MP whenever an offensive skill is activated.
Increases all damage dealt by 1.5%.

At +3: Increases critical strike rating by 6.
At +6: Increases critical strike damage modifier by 0.2.
At +9: Increases the duration of Hailstorm by 4 seconds.

Or this...

Guardian Blades
Tier 13 Warrior Twin Swords

Attack modifier: 3204
Impact modifier: 15392
Absorbs up to 40,217 damage with the Cross Parry skill.
Increases damage dealt to boss monsters by 4.5%.
Increases damage dealt to normal monsters by 4.5%.
Increases damage dealt to your highest-threat target by 3%.
Increases damage dealt to enraged monsters by 6%.
Increases threat generated by 13.5%.
Increases attack speed by 8%.

At +3: Increases Endurance attribute by 3.
At +6: Increases Power attribute by 3.
At +9: Your Traverse Cut ability grants 70% damage reduction when in Defensive Stance.

(Ermagherd! Swords actually made for warrior tanks!)

This sort of itemization is less random, promotes more gear variety based on playstyles, keeps the theorycrafters busy with number-crunching and ensures that in order to be as powerful as possible within the constraints of the game, one must collect (and fully enchant) multiple sets of weapons and armor and swap them out based on the current encounter.

Sure, you won't have RNG enchanting and will hit +9 or +12 without having to worry about 100 or more failures to progress, but you'll also have more gear to enchant (and thus spend money on, both in the form of financial transactions between players and dumping gold into the currency sink) in order to reach maximum effectiveness for any given encounter.
Edited by: synaesthetic over 5 years ago
Veronica5K Profile Options #290

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Those are some wonderful ideas Synaesthetic! I love the ones about static bonuses on gear and the examples. Gangaloo as always, I totally agree with you. I wanted to post my opinion but yours pretty much sums up everything I could think of. I also liked BarbeQQ example of comparing things between a slot machine and poker.