Please keep player (pet) shops in the game.

hurfmurf Profile Options #621

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EdgeTO on 04/05/2012, 12:45 PM - view

Your fear is born from a lack of understanding of how shops work. Player shops can only be placed in areas designated by the developers. They can not be thrown "wherever" people want.

If you see an area spammed by player shops, it's because a developer felt it was a good area for shops to be placed. If you disagree with that decision, argue about placement in a particular region, don't call for the outright removal of all shops (especially when you have the UI option of simply hiding them from view).


well, the pet shops are certainly get in my way in Velika when i try to interact with npcs there, it's a sea of them there. same was demonstrated on korean servers for that coast village that you get to at around level 30 sometime ago by a KTERA player.

you also misunderstood the meaning of my post: i am not actively advocating against player shops, i am merely voicing my agreement with the decision of the developers to remove them.
Waiden Profile Options #622

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devs pulled out shops nomatter how many players do like them. Deal with it. Nomatter what you think, they are developers and they are the company, which decide what is going to happen and what is important for the game:)

I am happy about shops beiing removed, even after few months of playing Ktera I never used stupid pet(spam) shops
Edited by: Waiden about 1 year ago
EdgeTO Profile Options #623

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Travail on 04/05/2012, 01:23 PM - view
EdgeTO on 04/05/2012, 12:39 PM
Yes. It's been mentioned before, but it's one of those points that opponents of player shops tend to conveniently ignore. As they can't monitor all chat channels from every single region, there are always going to be transaction opportunities being missed out on, player shops or no player shops. SOMEHOW, despite all the detailed predictions of economic failure, the economy continues along just fine. Is it voodoo magic? Or mountains being made out of molehills? You decide.


Which economy are you talking about, exactly? "The economy" has no meaning. I certainly hope you don't mean TERA's economy through the first 4 beta weekends, because it is anything but "fine."

Currently, in TERA beta, the cost of crafting materials on the Broker is so high that it prohibits crafters from turning a profit. The only way to net a gain in wealth right now in the CBT's is to hunt around for good deals on gathered materials and runes from player shops. Or to set up your own player shop buying the items you need at more reasonable prices than those listed on the Broker.

But go ahead, take those shops out. If that's the only change the devs make to TERA in this regard, the economy will crumble.

-Travail.


I was referring to the economy of most MMOs in general (at least, those sporting an auction house and a trade channel). The picture some posters in this thread paint suggests that spreading player transactions any further than the auction house weakens or damages the in-game economy. They would have everyone believing that player shops divides and fractures trade and threatens that economy, while ignoring the fact that the trade channel has always presented the very same risks.

In reality there is no actual risk to the in-game economies, from either player shops or the trade channel. It's just a lot of hot air, a scare tactic used by opponents of player shops in an attempt to convince their peers that removing ships is a good idea. All of these tools can coexist with the auction house and even complement one another. They have been for years now - that's all the *real* proof people need.

The real problem is that some players want access to the entire market under one simple interface, regardless of what it costs the rest of the community. People say they want their market tools to be easy. I want them to be easy too. Easy to me means "easy to use" as in a streamlined user interface that fits within the theme of the tool, not "make it easy for me to manipulate the market by putting everything under one roof". They view having to "shop around" as a hassle they don't want to participate in, and label it as a bad thing. I view it as a good thing, because I am willing to spend some time "shopping around", and as in any competition their lack of putting in any effort gives players who are willing to put in that effort an edge.

And yes, just like many other aspects of the game, trade is a competition - whether we're competing to sell our goods over someone elses, or competing to win a bid on an item many people are interested in, it takes effort to win, and if you're not willing to put in the effort then don't complain. MMOs have never been about delivering rewards on a silver platter.

I agree that the NA Tests have been too short to make any kind of decisions about the economy, especially since the decision to remove player shops was made after CBT1. I'm having a hard time accepting the excuse of "player feedback", especially when most of the feedback here responding to the removal of shops has been negative. As someone else mentioned, it's a pretty silly contradiction when someone suggests nobody likes player shops, and then complains about the sheer number of them cluttering an area in the same breath.
Edited by: EdgeTO about 1 year ago
EdgeTO Profile Options #624

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hurfmurf on 04/05/2012, 01:57 PM - view
well, the pet shops are certainly get in my way in Velika when i try to interact with npcs there, it's a sea of them there. same was demonstrated on korean servers for that coast village that you get to at around level 30 sometime ago by a KTERA player.

I've seen this complaint brought up before, and for the life of me I can not figure out why someone would simply not disable player shop visibility if the presence of those shops is obscuring an NPC they're attempting to interact with.

I do think the option to enable/disable player shops should be moved from the Options UI to somewhere more accessible, like the shop indicator next to our radar display which already has an icon showing whether or not you're in an area that allows player shop placement. The developers should have made it so just pressing that existing icon toggles visibility on and off.
Edited by: EdgeTO about 1 year ago
Malamasala Profile Options #625

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I'll never understand why companies listen to idiots, but never to the smart people.

Are the companies filled with idiots? Or are idiots their market, so they have to cater to them?

The solutions are bright as day to some of us here. As EdgeTO said, if people had problems finding the filter button, then the button should have been made more easily found.

This is the case of removing all water from a lake to prevent someone from failing to fish, instead of teaching them how to fish.

Spread knowledge, do not encourage stupidity.
sadoris Profile Options #626

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a dedicated area wouldnt be bad
Chinchilla Profile Options #627

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Antalicus on 03/14/2012, 09:42 AM - view
I like player shops but I don't like the way they are done. They need to make a shop like area for them not just a field of player npcs scattered about. It would also be nice if they looked like actual merchants rather than a child's stuffed animal.


Almost like market wards? Oh, wait..

http://www.gamespot.com/final-fantasy-xiv-online/forum/market-wards-retainer-hell-56281790/

This post is in regards to the market wards during beta. It's vastly different now, it's basically a less efficient convoluted auction house now.

There is no happy medium unfortunately (as of yet).
Edited by: Chinchilla about 1 year ago
Urcheon Profile Options #628

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They clearly stated why they made the change. We can agree or disagree & explain why but name calling is not productive & will most likely hurt any credibility one might have.

"Removed private stores – we removed private stores from TERA so we could make the broker system the central hub of the player economy. We’ve increased the limit of items that can be sold from 8 to 50 and think this will help players to go to one place to find whatever they need"

http://tera-forums.enmasse.com/forums/news-announcements/topics/Game-Content-Updates
EdgeTO Profile Options #629

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Urcheon on 04/05/2012, 08:53 PM - view
They clearly stated why they made the change. We can agree or disagree & explain why but name calling is not productive & will most likely hurt any credibility one might have.

"Removed private stores – we removed private stores from TERA so we could make the broker system the central hub of the player economy. We’ve increased the limit of items that can be sold from 8 to 50 and think this will help players to go to one place to find whatever they need"

http://tera-forums.enmasse.com/forums/news-announcements/topics/Game-Content-Updates

Problem is most players don't seem to agree with the reasons given. The broker being the central hub of the economy? Sure. Make an effort to improve some of its shortcomings and make it more attractive. But central hub doesn't have to be the ONLY hub, and it certainly seems like more players than not would prefer to have more options in this area rather than less.

Who is EME designing the game for? Us or them? This isn't a case of player crying about the nerfing of a class ability, or a change to the amount of money that drops from piglets. This is EME acting like most players want less trade options instead of more, and now most players are scratching their heads wondering where the developers ever got that crazy impression from. And the kicker is they're actually removing fully developed features from the game to give players something most of them never seemed to ask for (or even want).

The backlash they've received on this doesn't surprise me at all. It makes EME appear to be out of touch with the community. The fact that they really haven't ever gotten into the trenches and had a decent discussion with us about this despite the numerous lengthy threads on the subject just reinforces the impression that they're out of touch and completely not interested in getting in touch anytime soon. Many players see this as the writing on the wall for things to come.

A few pages back I made this comment: For all the people arguing for the removal of player shops, I would ask: how many shop-complaint threads did you participate in on these forums prior to EME's public announcement regarding the removal of this feature? And bonus points to anyone who can explain why that's a trick question.

Well, nobody tried for the bonus points (nor did anyone bother to offer an answer to the actual question). The reason it's s a trick question because there were no shop-complaint threads on these forums prior to EME publicly announcing their removal. But now the bandwagon has rolled on in, so...
Edited by: EdgeTO about 1 year ago
Urcheon Profile Options #630

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EdgeTO on 04/05/2012, 09:46 PM - view

Who is EME designing the game for? Us or them?


They clearly stated they are shaping TERA specifically for North America gamers and there is no reason to believe they are not "trying" to do that. The question is if they are successfully going to pull it off. How are they determining what we want and what are the best ways to accomplish this? And then to what extent should they change it to fit the audience vs maintaining what the original designers envisioned? My point is this is not an easy thing to do and there are no clear answers.

People will complain if they change a feature, they will complain if they don't. I guess they can only try to piss off the fewest people while making sure the pieces still fit well together.

They seem to be pushing Tera as a new breed "Action MMO" and I do think the changes they made strengthen that identity more then taking away from it, which I think is a good thing.