Gtako
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#1
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Yes, not the first post for this topic, but I think the latest changes are a terrible temporary bandage that ruins the selection of Vanarchs, and here's why:
1. 100 points a day. Small guilds that fight organized 5v5/10v10 with their leaders can max out in points in 10 fights. If the bigger guilds falls even for one day behind, it's basically impossible to catch up.
2. Still no fix for sophisticated point trading between guilds.
Fix:
This is a complete revamp of the system, but with tools I presumed is already in place since you see these mechanics elsewhere ingame:
1. Do away with point system, it doesn't work.
Instead, PvP Vanarch should be done by forcing fights between guilds. After all this is a PVP Vanarch. There are two reasons for guilds to dodge PvP right now: 1. They are in the lead after fighting/point trading and don't want to feed other guilds; 2. Enemies have significant number advantage and fighting them is just going to be a mass slaughter.
So how do you fix that? Schedule at least 1 PvP matches between participating guilds, every night, during the period, and 2x for Sat/Sun. The bigger guilds with overwhelming numbers will still have an advantage since they can easily spot the numbers required to fight, while smaller guilds will now be forced to lose points if you don't, and will not be "zerged" if you do.
The matches should be 10v10, 15v15, 20v20 or 25v25. 10s and 15s is more in-line with BG, while 20s and 25s is more in-line with the philosophy that bigger guilds should have an advantage.
If your guild can't even spot 10s or 15s in organized matches for one week, then you have no business in running for Vanarch in the first place.
The score will be decided by Win/Loss ratio, whoever wins the most of their matches by the end of the period wins Vanarchy. Not showing up to designated matches result in loss.
This enforces PvP in a PvP themed Vanarchy, while leveling the playing field to encourage actual PvP.
2. Where to fight?
At first, we thought about the deathmatch square outside Velika, but that's simply too small. Instead, I suggest the glass circle outside North Camp of ZF, the one area just before you head up the ram towards the camp. It is wide enough for bigger fights like 20s. Also the boundary allows for easier moderating.
When matches are fought, only those inside the circle can hit each other, and only those participating in the match are allowed inside the circle. I believe we have system in place that allows for that kind of system check. (Deathmatch system)
Fights are won when all opponents are eliminated.
No outside healing allowed.
Consumables and rezzing should be allow, since this is supposed to mirror owpvp, where advantage goes to more active, bigger guilds, but limit to numbers to even the playing field in that regards.
3. But this doesn't solve the issue with feeding completely? what if one team pretends to fight and throws matches?
It doesn't solve everything, but if we limit the matches between the guilds, ie one match between same guilds every 2 days, or 4-5 matches in total, we limit the effects of the win feeding. Since a province with 5 guilds would be fighting a total of 16 to 20 matches in total, making the feed guild about 25% ahead. (Also the alt guild will probably lose to legitimate guilds, giving them a free win).
In all honesty I really could careless about winning Vanarchy, but at this moment this system does not encourage PvP. Big guilds zerg smaller ones to try to win, smaller ones can't fight because of number differences; smaller guilds organize small fights that caps out easily. Everything just doesn't work at the moment.
EDIT: Also, dropping tag during the 1 week competition should be made impossible. This will limited the alt guilds and main guilds character switching to compete.
1. 100 points a day. Small guilds that fight organized 5v5/10v10 with their leaders can max out in points in 10 fights. If the bigger guilds falls even for one day behind, it's basically impossible to catch up.
2. Still no fix for sophisticated point trading between guilds.
Fix:
This is a complete revamp of the system, but with tools I presumed is already in place since you see these mechanics elsewhere ingame:
1. Do away with point system, it doesn't work.
Instead, PvP Vanarch should be done by forcing fights between guilds. After all this is a PVP Vanarch. There are two reasons for guilds to dodge PvP right now: 1. They are in the lead after fighting/point trading and don't want to feed other guilds; 2. Enemies have significant number advantage and fighting them is just going to be a mass slaughter.
So how do you fix that? Schedule at least 1 PvP matches between participating guilds, every night, during the period, and 2x for Sat/Sun. The bigger guilds with overwhelming numbers will still have an advantage since they can easily spot the numbers required to fight, while smaller guilds will now be forced to lose points if you don't, and will not be "zerged" if you do.
The matches should be 10v10, 15v15, 20v20 or 25v25. 10s and 15s is more in-line with BG, while 20s and 25s is more in-line with the philosophy that bigger guilds should have an advantage.
If your guild can't even spot 10s or 15s in organized matches for one week, then you have no business in running for Vanarch in the first place.
The score will be decided by Win/Loss ratio, whoever wins the most of their matches by the end of the period wins Vanarchy. Not showing up to designated matches result in loss.
This enforces PvP in a PvP themed Vanarchy, while leveling the playing field to encourage actual PvP.
2. Where to fight?
At first, we thought about the deathmatch square outside Velika, but that's simply too small. Instead, I suggest the glass circle outside North Camp of ZF, the one area just before you head up the ram towards the camp. It is wide enough for bigger fights like 20s. Also the boundary allows for easier moderating.
When matches are fought, only those inside the circle can hit each other, and only those participating in the match are allowed inside the circle. I believe we have system in place that allows for that kind of system check. (Deathmatch system)
Fights are won when all opponents are eliminated.
No outside healing allowed.
Consumables and rezzing should be allow, since this is supposed to mirror owpvp, where advantage goes to more active, bigger guilds, but limit to numbers to even the playing field in that regards.
3. But this doesn't solve the issue with feeding completely? what if one team pretends to fight and throws matches?
It doesn't solve everything, but if we limit the matches between the guilds, ie one match between same guilds every 2 days, or 4-5 matches in total, we limit the effects of the win feeding. Since a province with 5 guilds would be fighting a total of 16 to 20 matches in total, making the feed guild about 25% ahead. (Also the alt guild will probably lose to legitimate guilds, giving them a free win).
In all honesty I really could careless about winning Vanarchy, but at this moment this system does not encourage PvP. Big guilds zerg smaller ones to try to win, smaller ones can't fight because of number differences; smaller guilds organize small fights that caps out easily. Everything just doesn't work at the moment.
EDIT: Also, dropping tag during the 1 week competition should be made impossible. This will limited the alt guilds and main guilds character switching to compete.
Edited by: Gtako
10 months ago