Quote: Hampy on 05/03/2012, 09:17 AM - view

Seriously if you like pubes move to asia. <3 my shaven women & men if you are into that. Pubes suck

The most hilarious thing is though about the ‘pro-censorship’ crowd is that they are complete hypocrites.

Let’s take Darkness II for example, that game came out this year, is rated M, has full sex scenes (including oral) in it (you just can’t see a [filtered] entering a [filtered]), has more gore then you can imagine (especially the grab moves, one even has a tentacle entering your victims anus and coming out his mouth), has swearing in it, drugs and alcohol, and to top it all off, was not censored in anyway. I have heard zero complaints about that game (other than technical difficulties), and this is just one of many games that have come out in the last ten or so years that have little to no censorship (God of War series (topless women (possibly underage? It is a Greek mythos game ) and off screen sex scenes (involving two women at the same time) in at least two of them, massive amounts of gore), Fallout 3 and New Vegas (too many to list), Assassins Creed Series (an actual murder simulator (the whole point of the game is to murder bad people)), Duke Nukem Forever (do I really need to?), this list could go on and on), so why Tera all of a sudden?

I’ll tell you why, simply to make more money, that’s it, the big mystery is solved. They wanted to try and pull people from WoW, Rift, SWTOR, and so on, but of course those people would never play a straight up Asian MMO, so they ‘westernizes’ it without doing any real research into to how other games are not being censored at all (and, of course, pretty much failed to pull any large amount of players from any of the other MMOs). That right there is why I’m throw hypocrite around, western culture actually has no issue with violence, sex, whatever in video games or anything else for that matter (the people that do are actually in the minority), if anything they encourage it.

The censorship as it stands now is pointless, the short-shorts on the Elin do not cover up any more than the bikini/panties did, the covering of belly-buttons (I guess no one has belly-buttons at EME/Frogster, why else would they cover them up) was nothing more than a ‘MS Paint’ fill tool paint job also for the Elin, the covering of areolas (in which they actually removed the nipples all together) on a whole two or three armors for the Castanics was equally pointless considering dozens other games have full breasts showing (including Tera, statue anyone), and those are only the ones that can clearly be seen, there were apparently dozens of other ‘touch-ups’ they did. And then to top it all off, EME tells everyone go ahead and change the textures back if you want to….. then what was the point in the first place!

Wow, lot of comments since I went to bed.

Ok, first thing to address.
"The game is designed for 17+, younger people shouldn't play"

BZZZZZZ, wrong answer.

The ratings a game gets are purely for parental information. There is no law, nor ToS agreement (nor should there be one) that someone under the age of the games rating can not play it. It is the parents decision. If they look at the games rating, view videos, ask what the games about, and decide that the content isn't unsuitable for their child, then their child can play.

The ratings are relative to the parent. It's merely a warning of what's in the game. Saying that kids shouldn't even be in this game is tantamount to saying that under no circumstances should anyone under 17 ever watch an R rated movie, parental consent or not.

Second, we don't know the reason why EME chose to ask BHS to apply the new textures to this version. In all likelihood it has NOTHING to do with the rating (it would not have gotten the game an AO rating). It has nothing to do with children seeing it (if it did, Toddlers and Tiaras would be banned from TV).

The reasoning could very well be in line with frogster's reasoning (to protect those under the age of consent from pedos). It could also very well be that EME was just trying to appeal to a wider audience. It could be a [filtered]s and giggles thing. It could be that BHS plans on putting these textures into KTera and wanted to test 'em out in NA. We can't know as we weren't told the reasoning behind it (nor are we owed an explanation, as someone pointed out, it's EME's game in NA, if they don't feel like releasing a statement, they don't have to. You can submit a ticket, but they don't have to respond).

Third, To those that used toddlers and tiaras claiming it's "acceptable by culture as a whole" it is not. Quite the opposite. I was assigned a group speech that had to do with child beauty pageants. To prepare, our group did a survey of 1800 people (out infront of walmart and various gas stations over a week). 68% said that child beauty pageants were not acceptable, 8% said they were acceptable, 24% did not know that was even a thing (go figure lol).

The reason it's allowed is simply because it's not illegal. Culturally the majority doesn't like it. But until it's made illegal, it can go on. Just like had EME decided to keep the original textures.
They could have, it's not necessarily illegal (there's a big huge gray area when it comes to animation/drawings and child like girls).

However EME decided they didn't want it in the game. If we assume that Frogster's reasoning == EME's reasoning (to protect children that are (and have the right to play given parental consent)) then here's my opinion...

It's good. If even one pedophile decided not to play this game, and as a result did not come into contact with a child/early teen he/she otherwise would have, and sexually assaulted, I say this case of censorship is far justified.

It DOES happen (pedo's meeting children/young teens in MMOs and meeting and sexually abusing them) and I'm all for taking precautionary measures to try and lessen the chances of it happen.

This is purely my opinion, it's shaped by the fact that I was sexually abused as a child. It's not right or wrong, it's an opinion.


On a final note, I think our laws in the US regarding drawings and victimless CP crimes are absurd. It is currently illegal to have or create any image,animation,computer render that shows a child-like girl in such a way as to be viewed as sexually gratifying.

As you can see, that's a very vague law. It's ultimately up to the prosecutor if they feel the "line was crossed" (there have been arrests and convictions over various Manga in the US). Hence my "it's a gray area" statement earlier. It is situational and depends almost 100% with what the prosecutors view is, and if he thinks he can get a conviction (in most cases they will, as being accused of having CP is that damaging in our flawed judicial system).

I feel this law is just absurd. Drawings and images can actually deter a pedophile from actively engaging children, and they help decrease the demand for actual CP in which children are involved. Essentially by blanketing and saying "it's illegal, and you could be arrested because of a drawing/animation/computer rendered image" we're giving the pedos one less outlet to vent their desires, which may cause them to become active.

Now, in regards to MMOs, I think the censorship is justified solely because children CAN play (with parental consent). Whether they should be allowed to or not is completely irrelevant, as the fact of the matter is they can and are. If this were a single player game, then I wouldn't have any problems with it, but it's a community based game where children are present. See my earlier post about if even one child is protected by the elin change (yes I'm aware it will never be able to be proven. You can prove that something may have caused another thing, but it's very hard if not impossible to prove that enacting something was effective in discouraging it...at least until we figure out how to view parallel dimensions).


TL;DR

1) Kids can and do play. It's up to the parents to make the call if they want their kids in the game, given the information available and the current state of the game.

2)The texture changes had nothing to do with the games ESRB rating, as keeping them in would not have affected it.

3)Toddlers and Tiaras, and child beauty pageants are not culturally acceptable in general (people watch the shows because they're disgusted and in shock/awe that it goes on) but it is not illegal, so it is allowed to continue (till someone makes a law against it).
Eme could have legally kept the original skins in game, but for whatever reason they chose not to. Their (and BHS's) call.

4) Assuming that the reasoning behind it was to help deter pedos from being in this game (where those under 17 are playing, are allowed to play, regardless of how each of us feels about it, they are at this point in time) then I'm all for it. If it deters one pedo from coming into contact with, and later abusing a minor, it's justified.

5) Our laws concerning drawings and animations that are victimless, yet prosecutable as CP are absurd. So long as those things are kept out of community based situations where children can be present, they shouldn't be illegal.

6) (addendum) Censorship is NOT all or nothing, despite how much some of you claim otherwise. Censorship is situational. Even our first amendment right IS limited (it does not cover what is considered obscene material). Also censorship is only truly wrong when done so by the government. A person censoring something that they distribute/produce is well within their rights to do so (and is actually not censorship if they aren't pressured to do so and instead chose of their own free will to "censor" it). It's their decision. It can not be right or wrong. If Michelangelo had decided to not sculpt a [filtered], or to later cover it up, that would be his call.
EME and BHS decided for whatever reason they didn't want those textures in the NA release. That's it. You can feel like you were wronged, but you weren't. It was BHS/EME's call. If you're unhappy with it you're free to walk away at any time.

I was saying I'm fine with how the game is right now. I was taking a jab at the OP about lack of pubes and nipples...he's the one with issues not I.

The most hilarious thing about the pro-nudity scene is they all argue the same things and they all take a half a page to ramble on in defense of themselves. I wrote a clear and concise argument on page 13 that apparently he coudnt respond to. So they just make a massive wall of text, apparently thinking that if people dont want to read it they win by default. Seriously Redscar directly rebuttal anything I said in half the space you covered arguing about irrelevant bs. Darkness is a completely different market. And know why it doesnt offend me? Because Im not offended by stuff like this! The whole arguement is the amount of nudity DOESNT MATTER. And you are a sexually frustrated IDIOT for making such a big deal over it. Go fap, and get over it. kthx.

EDIT: Little long-winded there , Tizuby, but made some great points and clearly stated. ^^

I'd just like to start by saying that all of you making accusations that I will end up a sexual predator or that I'm obsessed with children; if you read that entire posting (which only one paragraph was on the subject of the Elin) then you're both completely moronic and frankly by simply stating this and nothing more you've effectively shown everyone that you are far from mature enough to handle an adult conversation on a sensitive subject.

I'd suggest you all rethink making accusations against one's character less you wish for them to make inferences on yours. And trust me I could quite easily stop ignoring it and lay into each and every one of you.

Now then, as I said before the easiest solution is a compromise for all players sake. It would be quite easily to add in a parental control option with a password sent directly to the email of the account owner (as anyone under 17 is required to have their parents create the account there is no liability in this method) and have the password enable the original textures/undergarments in game.

Of course this option would appease both sides as it would simply be a client side change and the textures would be altered only for you.

On top of this the email with the password would have to contain a detailed explanation of what it was for.

Example:
Dear [USER],

We have recently added a feature to unlock the original mature rated content that was contained in TERA upon it's release, this content includes the addition of attire that might not be suitable for younger players and the ability to view an avatar's undergarments. As a responsible company these features are restricted VIA a password and must be enabled by an adult account holder (I.E. parental permission is required for users below the age of 17).

We thank you for playing our game.
[Company, game]


EDIT: And Zera, I didn't respond to it because I was working. I hadn't bothered to check this posting til just now. I'll make sure to read your post and rip your argument asunder in just a moment.

Quote: Kiregean on 05/03/2012, 09:32 AM - view
Yea, all of you try and project and say anyone that talks against you is projecting.Call me what you are, I wont be offended because I know I'm not. =P You'll project because you need to feel like less of a minority. You're insane because you think your illness is justified.

EDIT:Read my post on Page 13, Kiregean, it was meant for you. Please do rebuttal that like the mature adult you are.

Quote: Kiregean on 05/03/2012, 09:32 AM - view

That is valid if and only if the reasoning behind the change was not to help protect minors from predators. See my long post above as to the logic of why this would be counter-intuitive if that is the reason.

(Again, until EME clarifies the reason, we can't say one way or another what the reason was. We can only speculate, and come up with scenarios based on assumptions.)

If the reasoning behind the decision has nothing to do with protecting children from pedos, then I wouldn't have much of a problem with this compromise (other than my opinion that it may draw a few more pedos into the game, but again, that's just my opinion).

Quote:

This. I'm curious how many pages of this thread are arguing semantics rather than the core argument, which everyone already understands.

What a waste of pixels. Although I suppose it gets good bumps from the spam.

These are forums for an online video game no one gives a [filtered] whether you molest children or not. Whether you say you do and don't or say you do and actually do no one should give half a [filtered]. I also support communism, slavery, in just treatment of prisoners of war, premarital sex, jews, gingers, hackers, spammers, botnets, and George W. Bush.

Just slow your role kiregean