The Age Old "Unrequired Censorship" Argument.

Malamasala Profile Options #201

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SlackerCS on 05/03/2012, 11:23 AM - view
A better argument would be asking how many TERA players there are all together, and how many of them have complained that they can't see elin panties on the forums. If it's over 50%, you may have something. In reality I bet it's around 1%.


Just show them a picture of both before and after censorship and ask them which armor looks better. If the majority points out the old armors, then there we have it, old armors were better.

Best choice might be one of those with bellys covered, to make the changes the most obvious.
Baratan Profile Options #202

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Crumplecorn on 05/03/2012, 11:41 AM - view
Baratan on 05/03/2012, 11:35 AM
Crumplecorn on 05/03/2012, 11:30 AM
Who said this is the case?

"Acceptable "statement: Evil western civilization is too immature and childish to handle scantily clad Elin.

"Unacceptable" Statement: Evil eastern civilization is too perverted and outlandish to better cover Elin.

Westernization is treated as a dirty word and appeal to western society is treated as a filthy act while Easternization and appeal to eastern society are treated as steps towards godliness.
The first describes restriction, the second, freedom.

Why would we want to treat both statements the same way?

This reminds me of a discussion of how asking for removal of censorship isn't censorship itself. Was that you?


An illustration of my point exactly.
bentcurve Profile Options #203

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Excuse me while I try to be logical in the midst of this:

Leaving the Elin as they were in Korea made zero good business sense. American media sensationalizing everything, and all it would have taken was one right wing pundit or conservative Christian talking head to bring the small company on EnMasse down. Have you not seen how things in popular culture can get boycotted in America, leading to civil suits, bad press, risk aversion on the side of developers to have Enmasse publish their games. You are all thinking like internet children, and not like the people trying to start and grow a business. The potential backlash could have been crushing.

Ultimitly, you are talking about something that could have shut Tera down, as well as Enmasse. Those are job, people, lives, and careers you are talking about. Please try to maintain some perspective.
Crumplecorn Profile Options #204

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ZerachielThalos on 05/03/2012, 11:44 AM - view
I'll add on the fact that that's the mindset of a VERY small minority, and back out for now cause I lol'd but I've spent enough time here, they obviously have a lot of time to spend arguing something that's not going to change and doesn't really affect anyone either way with it being such a tiny triviality. They'll counter anything, feel "godly" and yet the only way they would "win" is if EME agreed with thier 1%, which it doesn't seem to. They can fill up the forums all they want, maybe get a change, but probably not and if they unsub because of it, yay. EMEs profit margins won't be affected by it and as much as they whine I doubt they'll unsub because they know themselves it's a tiny irrelevant thing. Seacrest out.
>Spends ages arguing
>Calls it a triviality when he loses

How's them grapes Mr. Fox?
Crumplecorn Profile Options #205

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bentcurve on 05/03/2012, 11:48 AM - view
Excuse me while I try to be logical in the midst of this:

Leaving the Elin as they were in Korea made zero good business sense. American media sensationalizing everything, and all it would have taken was one right wing pundit or conservative Christian talking head to bring the small company on EnMasse down. Have you not seen how things in popular culture can get boycotted in America, leading to civil suits, bad press, risk aversion on the side of developers to have Enmasse publish their games. You are all thinking like internet children, and not like the people trying to start and grow a business. The potential backlash could have been crushing.

Ultimitly, you are talking about something that could have shut Tera down, as well as Enmasse. Those are job, people, lives, and careers you are talking about. Please try to maintain some perspective.
Have you not seen the examples of games which match or exceed Tera in objectionable content, yet survied just fine in the west without censorship?

Please try to pay attention.
SlackerCS Profile Options #206

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Crumplecorn on 05/03/2012, 11:43 AM - view
What matters isn't the people who are unaffected, it's those who will complain about one vs those who will complain about the other.

I agree 100%. Where we differ is on the numbers in each group. I maintain that there are more people in the group who would be deterred by the old models than there are in the group that (A) know about the change at all and (B) are upset by it. Agree to disagree.

And if you're playing enough to ding 30 you can't hate the game that much. ;)
MrThebigcheese Profile Options #207

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Baratan on 05/03/2012, 11:47 AM - view


An illustration of my point exactly.


People like you make progress impossible.

/FACEPALM
Crumplecorn Profile Options #208

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Baratan on 05/03/2012, 11:47 AM - view
An illustration of my point exactly.
Actually that's a contradiction of your point. You gonna argue that contradiction and proof are the same thing now?



SlackerCS on 05/03/2012, 11:50 AM
Crumplecorn on 05/03/2012, 11:43 AM
What matters isn't the people who are unaffected, it's those who will complain about one vs those who will complain about the other.

I agree 100%. Where we differ is on the numbers in each group. I maintain that there are more people in the group who would be deterred by the old models than there are in the group that (A) know about the change at all and (B) are upset by it. Agree to disagree.

And if you're playing enough to ding 30 you can't hate the game that much. ;)
And I'm saying lets compared actual figures instead of pulling numbers out of our [filtered].

Complaints before change: 0
Complaints because of change: Over 9000
(numbers subject to revision by someone who has been around longer)

And where did I say I hate the game? Why would I be here arguing if I hated the game?
Edited by: Crumplecorn about 1 year ago
SlackerCS Profile Options #209

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Malamasala on 05/03/2012, 11:47 AM - view
Just show them a picture of both before and after censorship and ask them which armor looks better. If the majority points out the old armors, then there we have it, old armors were better.

Best choice might be one of those with bellys covered, to make the changes the most obvious.

I guarantee that if you showed 100 adult American males two pictures of Elins, one with the panties showing and one without, all 100 would pick the non-panty version, even if they liked the other better. You'd have to set up an anonymous survey to get better results, and even then the panty fans would be nowhere near 50%.
Malamasala Profile Options #210

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SlackerCS on 05/03/2012, 11:37 AM - view

I'm not sure I understand. If fifty people hate the change and quit, and 100 people don't mind the change and join up, EME is on the right track. They will always go with what gives them the best shot at success. The real question is why anyone bought the game in the first place if they didn't like the product being sold.


You can't count "don't care" people as gains. They would buy the game regardless, so no changes would be +150 people and with changes would be +100 people, with a net loss of 50 due to the changes and a gain of 0.

You have to talk about people who join BECAUSE of the change. I.e. people who magically think panties and bellybuttons is a reason to ignore a game. It isn't enough to say they like the change, it must be "The change is the only reason I bought Tera". Unless they can say that, they can't be counted as gained players through the changes.