Quote: zeruel1223 on 06/08/2012, 02:50 PM

Quote: Nisu on 06/08/2012, 02:33 PM

No grind in EVE Online?:
EVE Online is a game that's often lauded by players as having eliminated the grind present in other MMOs. However, it's clear that EVE still has a large amount of repetitive gameplay that can be considered grind. While nothing is forcing you to run missions over and over again or mine for hours on end, those areas of gameplay where heavy grind exists are very heavily used. When given a universe in which they don't have to grind, why then do so many players actively seek out something repetitive to grind on?

quoted from an article by Brendan Drain

With EVE, players choosing to grind is more about finding one's niche and specializing to maximize your return while minimizing time or effort. You dont have to "grind this then grind that then grind that". It's more like "you can do any of these different things, and stop doing any of them when you feel like it, and continually receive rewards while doing them".

edit: No RNG? What are you talking about? What are officer or faction modules then?

Well I don't really count Officer spawns as RNG because they are not player depreciated or caused, and there not actually random. Theres a formula that says 1 out of "a number" which spawn WILL be an officer spawn. Which is Not RNG since it isn't actually random.

With eve its more about circumstances for something to spawn special wise ratehr then random, but it sems random to players because the devs have a program that continually cycles set peramiters, so while not random you can't make them spawn by taking certain actions in a patern. (If that makes sense).

Quote: Malpherian on 06/08/2012, 02:54 PM

Quote: zeruel1223 on 06/08/2012, 02:50 PM

Quote: Nisu on 06/08/2012, 02:33 PM

No grind in EVE Online?:
EVE Online is a game that's often lauded by players as having eliminated the grind present in other MMOs. However, it's clear that EVE still has a large amount of repetitive gameplay that can be considered grind. While nothing is forcing you to run missions over and over again or mine for hours on end, those areas of gameplay where heavy grind exists are very heavily used. When given a universe in which they don't have to grind, why then do so many players actively seek out something repetitive to grind on?

quoted from an article by Brendan Drain

With EVE, players choosing to grind is more about finding one's niche and specializing to maximize your return while minimizing time or effort. You dont have to "grind this then grind that then grind that". It's more like "you can do any of these different things, and stop doing any of them when you feel like it, and continually receive rewards while doing them".

edit: No RNG? What are you talking about? What are officer or faction modules then?

Well I don't really count Officer spawns as RNG because they are not player depreciated or caused, and there not actually random. Theres a formula that says 1 out of "a number" which spawn WILL be an officer spawn. Which is Not RNG since it isn't actually random.

With eve its more about circumstances for something to spawn special wise ratehr then random, but it sems random to players because the devs have a program that continually cycles set peramiters, so while not random you can't make them spawn by taking certain actions in a patern. (If that makes sense).

That's quite the pointless distinction to make if the distinction isn't apparent to players in any way, nor is the result different than if the drop pattern was to be truly random. The drops would still be going to players in a random way, because it is chance that determines which player will be in the right place at the right time.

Quote: zeruel1223 on 06/08/2012, 02:59 PM

Quote: Malpherian on 06/08/2012, 02:54 PM

Quote: zeruel1223 on 06/08/2012, 02:50 PM

Quote: Nisu on 06/08/2012, 02:33 PM

No grind in EVE Online?:

EVE Online is a game that's often lauded by players as having eliminated the grind present in other MMOs. However, it's clear that EVE still has a large amount of repetitive gameplay that can be considered grind. While nothing is forcing you to run missions over and over again or mine for hours on end, those areas of gameplay where heavy grind exists are very heavily used. When given a universe in which they don't have to grind, why then do so many players actively seek out something repetitive to grind on?



quoted from an article by Brendan Drain

With EVE, players choosing to grind is more about finding one's niche and specializing to maximize your return while minimizing time or effort. You dont have to "grind this then grind that then grind that". It's more like "you can do any of these different things, and stop doing any of them when you feel like it, and continually receive rewards while doing them".



edit: No RNG? What are you talking about? What are officer or faction modules then?

Well I don't really count Officer spawns as RNG because they are not player depreciated or caused, and there not actually random. Theres a formula that says 1 out of "a number" which spawn WILL be an officer spawn. Which is Not RNG since it isn't actually random.



With eve its more about circumstances for something to spawn special wise ratehr then random, but it sems random to players because the devs have a program that continually cycles set peramiters, so while not random you can't make them spawn by taking certain actions in a patern. (If that makes sense).

That's quite the pointless distinction to make if the distinction isn't apparent to players in any way, nor is the result different than if the drop pattern was to be truly random. The drops would still be going to players in a random way, because it is chance that determines which player will be in the right place at the right time.

I wont disagree with this, but it also not a programed RNG like other MMO's have, if anything it is true random chance unenforced and definitely not designed as a money sink or time sink, since there is no requirement to kill said Officer spawn, and you can easily buy its drops off the market.

CCPs goals for EvE online have always been sustainability and Longevity, , (More money over a long period of time)

Rather then billions of subscribers, short term life 5-15 years (More money in the short term less in the long term). Like WoW, Aion, Tera, Etc.

Tera has the ability to become, much like EvE in these aspects if the developes simply edit a few key details, and of course [filtered] a lot more content which is ever changing and growing open ended, rather then fixed once this is done it's done.

In Tera, What do you do after you ahve the best gear, plenty of gold, and every achievment?

You have 3 Options:

* Play Politics and Run a Guild
* Stand in your capital city spinning in circles singing I'm a little teapot
* Quit terra for the newly released MMO and Start the process over again.

In EvE this question doesn't even apply because there is no biggest bestest gear or ship, and there is No end. Thus solveing the issue of Lifespan for an MMO.

EME needs to Get with CCP and have a chat to figure out how to Make Tera's lifespan just as profitable and sustainable.

...but I don't mind it because I know that when I finally do get it, I'm going to celebrate!

Tera has the ability to become, much like EvE in these aspects if the developes simply edit a few key details, and of course [filtered] a lot more content which is ever changing and growing open ended, rather then fixed once this is done it's done.

I'll just wait until CCP or someone else implements most of EVE's features into a fantasy style world. Has an MMO done that yet?

Try playing EvE Online. All Creativity, No end game (or rather never ending end game), Infinite possibilities, and NO GRIND. because there is always something to do that is different then what you did 2 minuets ago, and anyone can play the game (To it's fullest) whether they be a 10 year old Veteran, or a 1 hour old noob.

Quote: terabeta426 on 06/08/2012, 01:57 PM

Makes me wonder if there is an mmo bubble waiting to burst. When wow loses an enormous chunk of their subscribers (it will happen eventually i'm certain of it), how many of them will jump back into the same exact system?

... this all just seems unsustainable in the long run to me

It is unsustainable and inefficient.

I'm with you in the feeling that the MMO bubble isn't looking too good. Too many MMO's are getting pumped out and they all essentially amount to the same thing with a certain gimmick to set them apart. TERA's gimmick, it's combat, is wonderful, but it most certainly could have been much better.

Sadly, games that do follow the actual sand-box route get little exposure and gain little popularity, because frankly, developers don't seem to be capable of giving them that same shine themepark developers do for their games.