Vanin
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#201
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when i tank as warrior i like to kick slayers and archers
zerkers can stay :)
zerkers can stay :)
Kajin
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#202
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I still believe Lancers are better tanks than warriors. Here's why from my experience:
I have a lvl 46 sorc. I've been playing Tera with a friend since lvl 11 and he's been a tank. At this point of the game I am capable of dealing out crits of up to 100k+ on bams around my lvl! This is because of the crit multipliers I have on and me powering up my fireblast.
My friend had to deal with me dropping out massive crits from early on. From around the SM dungeon and up he's been having to me dropping these massive crits. I tend to pull aggro because of it. Yet amazingly I don't hold it. He manages as a lancer to pull the aggro back and keep the monster's back to me. Which allows me to unleash more crits.
The occasional one or two time I had the BAM chase me around but it was always pulled right back off me. This is why I prefer a lancer.
A warrior tank won't be able to keep up with the damage I drop. Especially when I hit lvl 48 and get Burst of Celerity. With this skill my atk spd can be boosted temporarily by 70% (once glyphed). Without this I'm already pulling aggro no matter who tanks and with it I'll be pulling aggro constantly. I need a lancer who can repeatedly yank the BAM off of me.
Their skills lets them do that. Just their Challenging shout alone has a 10 sec CD. Their leash skill can also interrupt a BAM and get it's attention.
If a warrior was tanking and I pulled aggro, that bam would mostly like jump/charge at me within 1-2 secs which a few have and then I'll have to use my own dodge skills to pull away from it. While a warrior will have to run a good 20m or so after that BAM because of the distant I just game with my chicken scared self lol.
Now mind you, I've also created a tank and got it to lvl 28 at the moment. I have no idea how can a warrior tank handle dungeon mobs even if they are circling around them half the time. I wouldn't even know what they do if their team accidently pulled too many mobs which has happened to me more that once on occasion. Such has having 6-8 dungeon mobs (at around my lvl) attacking me.
If a warrior tank can handle that mayhem without dying or running off like a coward, congrats to them but I don't see it happening. I've nearly died against so may mobs and I'm the lancer who's built for tanking.
Now if a warrior tank did run off and run in circles to handle this horde of dungeon mobs, I would then imagine that his party is gonna be attacking the mobs which in turn will cause them to pull aggro on one or two of the mobs. Which would then get his slayer, sorc, zerker, and possibly priest atk because he just couldn't hold aggro on so many mobs and survive.
When you get into those oh [filtered] moments, you want a lancer. Warriors are best a subsitute to give the lancer a moment of rest to heal/recover and do much better as a dpser than a tank. Their ability to continously weaken a mob is amazing and something that all other dpser can appreciate. They can't possibly keep that up if the mobs are attacking them.
To be fair though. I am in the process of making a warrior and will definitely check out it's tanking ability by soloing a few BAMs. We'll see how it goes in the coming days.
I have a lvl 46 sorc. I've been playing Tera with a friend since lvl 11 and he's been a tank. At this point of the game I am capable of dealing out crits of up to 100k+ on bams around my lvl! This is because of the crit multipliers I have on and me powering up my fireblast.
My friend had to deal with me dropping out massive crits from early on. From around the SM dungeon and up he's been having to me dropping these massive crits. I tend to pull aggro because of it. Yet amazingly I don't hold it. He manages as a lancer to pull the aggro back and keep the monster's back to me. Which allows me to unleash more crits.
The occasional one or two time I had the BAM chase me around but it was always pulled right back off me. This is why I prefer a lancer.
A warrior tank won't be able to keep up with the damage I drop. Especially when I hit lvl 48 and get Burst of Celerity. With this skill my atk spd can be boosted temporarily by 70% (once glyphed). Without this I'm already pulling aggro no matter who tanks and with it I'll be pulling aggro constantly. I need a lancer who can repeatedly yank the BAM off of me.
Their skills lets them do that. Just their Challenging shout alone has a 10 sec CD. Their leash skill can also interrupt a BAM and get it's attention.
If a warrior was tanking and I pulled aggro, that bam would mostly like jump/charge at me within 1-2 secs which a few have and then I'll have to use my own dodge skills to pull away from it. While a warrior will have to run a good 20m or so after that BAM because of the distant I just game with my chicken scared self lol.
Now mind you, I've also created a tank and got it to lvl 28 at the moment. I have no idea how can a warrior tank handle dungeon mobs even if they are circling around them half the time. I wouldn't even know what they do if their team accidently pulled too many mobs which has happened to me more that once on occasion. Such has having 6-8 dungeon mobs (at around my lvl) attacking me.
If a warrior tank can handle that mayhem without dying or running off like a coward, congrats to them but I don't see it happening. I've nearly died against so may mobs and I'm the lancer who's built for tanking.
Now if a warrior tank did run off and run in circles to handle this horde of dungeon mobs, I would then imagine that his party is gonna be attacking the mobs which in turn will cause them to pull aggro on one or two of the mobs. Which would then get his slayer, sorc, zerker, and possibly priest atk because he just couldn't hold aggro on so many mobs and survive.
When you get into those oh [filtered] moments, you want a lancer. Warriors are best a subsitute to give the lancer a moment of rest to heal/recover and do much better as a dpser than a tank. Their ability to continously weaken a mob is amazing and something that all other dpser can appreciate. They can't possibly keep that up if the mobs are attacking them.
To be fair though. I am in the process of making a warrior and will definitely check out it's tanking ability by soloing a few BAMs. We'll see how it goes in the coming days.
PhillipVIII
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#203
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Vanin on 05/24/2012, 06:26 PM - view
LOL
when i tank as warrior i like to kick slayers and archers
zerkers can stay :)
LOL
ToolofSociety
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#204
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Kajin on 05/24/2012, 07:00 PM - viewYou're almost completely full of crap. I can generate just as much if not more threat on my warrior then my lancer. Warriors have taunts too and the chain taunt that lancers have isn't going to move the BAM or Boss anyway so for all intents they are the same. Although I imagine you don't see torrent of blows as a taunt.
I don't run after any BAMs but then again I know how to use my warrior skills (backstab smoke aggressor etc)...
Meanwhile my zerker fairly consistently rips aggro off lancers with it's crits while warriors seem to handle it better.
A warrior tank won't be able to keep up with the damage I drop. Especially when I hit lvl 48 and get Burst of Celerity. With this skill my atk spd can be boosted temporarily by 70% (once glyphed). Without this I'm already pulling aggro no matter who tanks and with it I'll be pulling aggro constantly. I need a lancer who can repeatedly yank the BAM off of me.
Their skills lets them do that. Just their Challenging shout alone has a 10 sec CD. Their leash skill can also interrupt a BAM and get it's attention.
If a warrior was tanking and I pulled aggro, that bam would mostly like jump/charge at me within 1-2 secs which a few have and then I'll have to use my own dodge skills to pull away from it. While a warrior will have to run a good 20m or so after that BAM because of the distant I just game with my chicken scared self lol.
I don't run after any BAMs but then again I know how to use my warrior skills (backstab smoke aggressor etc)...
Meanwhile my zerker fairly consistently rips aggro off lancers with it's crits while warriors seem to handle it better.
Edited by: ToolofSociety
12 months ago
Orby
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#205
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Yassha on 05/08/2012, 07:40 PM - view
Oh boy Some Trash war thinking hes better at tanking then a GOOD lancer, where to begin...
-Leash->Taunt->Shield Counter and i can hold aggro on Bam/boss/mob indefinetly rotating between the three skils
-No they dont LANCERS have iron will that can maintained that gives them immense defense
-Lancers have the same amount if not more debuffs then wars (Lockdown Blow,Menacing Wave, Shield Barrage, Debilitate, chain leash, Shield Bash)
-Not all Lancers kick Zerks
-efficiency>cool
-Lancers can sit in healers aoe heals without forcing healers to get aggro, it cant be simpler then that...
-Our taunts are better at grouping mobs
-We give the "fun" of dealing dmg in return for being better tanks.. which is why theres less lancers then wars
-Don't see the war-sorc synergy, we do the same [filtered] but better
-Subjective
-Iron will
-Onslaught
You clearly should check out what a Lancer can do before posting stupid threads claiming stupid facts, Theres a reason why KTERA uses Lancers over Wars for tanking..
Warriors:
draw and maintain threat better than lancers
have higher defense when glyphed correctly
can apply an awesome debuff and still allow room for three full dps in party
do not try to kick berserkers
look really cool when fighting/tanking
can be easier to heal if they know how to dodge
can round up groups of mobs better for big aoe nuking
are in plentiful supply
awesome synergy with sorcerers
tank better while pumping out dps
make the game more challanging/fun when they miss a dodge or turn a boss onto the healer
can take a quite a beating even if they miss a dodge
can attack while maintaining huge damage reduction with some skills (I'm up to 70%)
and more.....
Discuss.
Oh boy Some Trash war thinking hes better at tanking then a GOOD lancer, where to begin...
-Leash->Taunt->Shield Counter and i can hold aggro on Bam/boss/mob indefinetly rotating between the three skils
-No they dont LANCERS have iron will that can maintained that gives them immense defense
-Lancers have the same amount if not more debuffs then wars (Lockdown Blow,Menacing Wave, Shield Barrage, Debilitate, chain leash, Shield Bash)
-Not all Lancers kick Zerks
-efficiency>cool
-Lancers can sit in healers aoe heals without forcing healers to get aggro, it cant be simpler then that...
-Our taunts are better at grouping mobs
-We give the "fun" of dealing dmg in return for being better tanks.. which is why theres less lancers then wars
-Don't see the war-sorc synergy, we do the same [filtered] but better
-Subjective
-Iron will
-Onslaught
You clearly should check out what a Lancer can do before posting stupid threads claiming stupid facts, Theres a reason why KTERA uses Lancers over Wars for tanking..
Kajin
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#206
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You forget the glyphs that lancers have. 1 glyph alone Let's their Shield counter have 100% additional aggro. Or at least that's what the tool tip says. If you know anything about lancers their shield counter has an extremely short CD of 5 secs. It's very easy to spam.
The beauty of the lancer's leash is they can interrupt BAMs with it.
Lancers also get a shout that maxes out their aggro, just incase someone manages to repeatedly rip it from them.
Now mind you, I have a sorc too and I have repeatedly ripped aggro. I'm rather proud that I do simply because I know I've done beyond significant damage to the BAM that it had to notice me. Yet my lancer friend can instantly get the BAM back under his control. Rarely does it chase me for more than a second. That tells you how well he plays his lancer and makes sure to keep the aggro on him at all times.
Warriors seem more like hybrids to me. Sure they can dps but it ain't easy for them and I'm sure they rather let a Lancer tank instead of doing it themselves. Lancers have the tools built for it.
Once a Sorc gets Burst of Celerity I doubt a warrior tank could keep it up. We are talking about a 70% atk spd increase for 15 secs. Every spell in my arsenal will be fired within that time frame and more. Yet Burst of Celerity only has a 25sec CD, so only a 10 sec down time before it's cast again and spells are fired once more. Only thing holding back my sorc now would be her rapidly depleting mana pool.
The beauty of the lancer's leash is they can interrupt BAMs with it.
Lancers also get a shout that maxes out their aggro, just incase someone manages to repeatedly rip it from them.
Now mind you, I have a sorc too and I have repeatedly ripped aggro. I'm rather proud that I do simply because I know I've done beyond significant damage to the BAM that it had to notice me. Yet my lancer friend can instantly get the BAM back under his control. Rarely does it chase me for more than a second. That tells you how well he plays his lancer and makes sure to keep the aggro on him at all times.
Warriors seem more like hybrids to me. Sure they can dps but it ain't easy for them and I'm sure they rather let a Lancer tank instead of doing it themselves. Lancers have the tools built for it.
Once a Sorc gets Burst of Celerity I doubt a warrior tank could keep it up. We are talking about a 70% atk spd increase for 15 secs. Every spell in my arsenal will be fired within that time frame and more. Yet Burst of Celerity only has a 25sec CD, so only a 10 sec down time before it's cast again and spells are fired once more. Only thing holding back my sorc now would be her rapidly depleting mana pool.
VampyreAclhemist
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#207
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O_O This thread is still alive? Wow. xD
Yassha
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#208
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Kajin on 05/24/2012, 07:00 PM - view
First let me say I envy that damage output, those poor monsters!
You raise some interesting points here that highlight common misconceptions about warriors as tanks.
Agro: A good lancer may be able to maintain agro, but even a mediocre warrior tank can do as well. If the mobs are tauntable, the warrior skill torrent of blows generates enormous threat. I have run with so many lancers that just can't hold agro, and it is kind of amusing since I know how easy it is on my warrior.
No leash: warriors use backstab-torrent of blows or charging slash-torrent of blows. The leash is a cool ability though.
Team pulls too many mobs: Warriors actually really excel here. For some reason you can just run circles around large groups of mobs and not get hit. Again ToB is such a great skill and can be glyped to root, just land that in the middle and or a battle cry and move around. You can keep them all bunched up nicely for the 100k fireblast. A weakness is against ranged mobs with lock on or continuous AOE abilities, these mobs are a lot rarer so its usually not a problem.
I'm a lancer who is built for tanking: Ahh now this is the whole reason why I started this thread. You see a warrior is also built for tanking, as the class description says. I didn't believe it either, but once my group convinced me to try it I saw the light.
I have a lvl 46 sorc. I've been playing Tera with a friend since lvl 11 and he's been a tank. At this point of the game I am capable of dealing out crits of up to 100k+ on bams around my lvl! This is because of the crit multipliers I have on and me powering up my fireblast.
A warrior tank won't be able to keep up with the damage I drop. Especially when I hit lvl 48 and get Burst of Celerity. With this skill my atk spd can be boosted temporarily by 70% (once glyphed). Without this I'm already pulling aggro no matter who tanks and with it I'll be pulling aggro constantly. I need a lancer who can repeatedly yank the BAM off of me.
Their skills lets them do that. Just their Challenging shout alone has a 10 sec CD. Their leash skill can also interrupt a BAM and get it's attention.
If a warrior was tanking and I pulled aggro, that bam would mostly like jump/charge at me within 1-2 secs which a few have and then I'll have to use my own dodge skills to pull away from it. While a warrior will have to run a good 20m or so after that BAM because of the distant I just game with my chicken scared self lol.
Now mind you, I've also created a tank and got it to lvl 28 at the moment. I have no idea how can a warrior tank handle dungeon mobs even if they are circling around them half the time. I wouldn't even know what they do if their team accidently pulled too many mobs which has happened to me more that once on occasion. Such has having 6-8 dungeon mobs (at around my lvl) attacking me.
If a warrior tank can handle that mayhem without dying or running off like a coward, congrats to them but I don't see it happening. I've nearly died against so may mobs and I'm the lancer who's built for tanking.
Now if a warrior tank did run off and run in circles to handle this horde of dungeon mobs, I would then imagine that his party is gonna be attacking the mobs which in turn will cause them to pull aggro on one or two of the mobs. Which would then get his slayer, sorc, zerker, and possibly priest atk because he just couldn't hold aggro on so many mobs and survive.
First let me say I envy that damage output, those poor monsters!
You raise some interesting points here that highlight common misconceptions about warriors as tanks.
Agro: A good lancer may be able to maintain agro, but even a mediocre warrior tank can do as well. If the mobs are tauntable, the warrior skill torrent of blows generates enormous threat. I have run with so many lancers that just can't hold agro, and it is kind of amusing since I know how easy it is on my warrior.
No leash: warriors use backstab-torrent of blows or charging slash-torrent of blows. The leash is a cool ability though.
Team pulls too many mobs: Warriors actually really excel here. For some reason you can just run circles around large groups of mobs and not get hit. Again ToB is such a great skill and can be glyped to root, just land that in the middle and or a battle cry and move around. You can keep them all bunched up nicely for the 100k fireblast. A weakness is against ranged mobs with lock on or continuous AOE abilities, these mobs are a lot rarer so its usually not a problem.
I'm a lancer who is built for tanking: Ahh now this is the whole reason why I started this thread. You see a warrior is also built for tanking, as the class description says. I didn't believe it either, but once my group convinced me to try it I saw the light.
Serosen
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#209
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Hey guys wuts up
Yassha
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#210
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Here is another way that warriors beat out lancers in the tank department.
WARRIORS ARE LESS LIKELY TO LEAVE A GROUP.
This is a significant advantage, especially for dps who have to wait an hour or more to queue in LFD or a long time spamming chat to get a group together.
Its also a good reason to have a warrior in your group in general. When the lancer leaves in the middle of a dungeon because no one agreed to kick the zerker, or you weren't respectful enough to her-highness, you can just keep on going if you have a warrior in the group. You'll probably actually do better, since a lancer that leaves mid-game is likely pretty bad.
WARRIORS ARE LESS LIKELY TO LEAVE A GROUP.
This is a significant advantage, especially for dps who have to wait an hour or more to queue in LFD or a long time spamming chat to get a group together.
Its also a good reason to have a warrior in your group in general. When the lancer leaves in the middle of a dungeon because no one agreed to kick the zerker, or you weren't respectful enough to her-highness, you can just keep on going if you have a warrior in the group. You'll probably actually do better, since a lancer that leaves mid-game is likely pretty bad.