What Endgame is Really Like

Brolistic Profile Options #41

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Fatra on 05/21/2012, 01:15 AM - view


Time to progress=/= rng progression. I would not mind something that took time or money as long as it was a sure thing. When I farm a ton and run the same 2 instances for fodder just to fail its just not fun. I've been 60 since the Friday after launch along with a year of KTera under my belt. The way this game has character progression set now is simply just not fun. When I was playing KTera I knew certain things would have to change for NA and some did-but some didn't and I believe its going to hurt the success of Tera.


The point I was trying to make before, was that unlucky players with limited play time could go large amounts of real life time with nothing to show for it in game. The less time spent engaging in RNG based progression, the less likely you are to near the average rate of successes and failures. Casual players who attempt far fewer enchants than hardcore gamers are much more likely to hit a 100% failure rate.

Currently, the speed of gear progression is determined by RNG. I'd much rather it'd be determined by time spent, effort, and player skill.
Fatra Profile Options #42

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^Agree.
Squishies Profile Options #43

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Squishy Lvl.30
Celestial Hills - Roleplay (PVE)
Popori Lancer
The endgame is monotonous and ill-fitted for the NA playerbase.

Lack of training grounds and the removal of dungeons leading up to Fane make it harder than it should be.



OP's description is fairly accurate:

Doing the same thing 50 times so you can do the next thing 50 times is tedious, and under stringent requirements as well.


The timesink wouldn't be as bad if we had more variety and ways to advance our characters... if there were more lvl 60 instances that provided the rewards worth running for, then the endgame might not involve a linear path of cycling between merely two dungeon designs ad infinitum.
Taosym Profile Options #44

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Fatra on 05/21/2012, 01:43 AM - view
Taosym on 05/21/2012, 01:34 AM
Brolistic on 05/21/2012, 01:08 AM
Casual players with full time jobs and social obligations won't have the time, even if they have the will, to make it through the endgame time sinks. RNG based gear progression means that players with limited play time could go days, weeks, or even months without advancing their characters.

Most players, along with myself, who are already 60 are the type of players that will tolerate the randomness of gear progression. Some may even like it. The issue is, if the core and casual gamers all quit, then there won't be a game to play anymore.


They won't have time to do what exactly? Because I played casually. I'm right now 33% through 59, I expect to be 60 by the time i'm done playing. It's been over 30 days since my character has been Live. I've made alts, i've worked on side quests, watched cutscenes, explored the lore. When I get to 60, it will take me months to go through that content. And by the time i'm done, there will be more content. By the time I even finish that, I'll have Nexus and BGs to do. And there's supposedly more in the pipeline at the end of the year.

I take relief in the fact that En Masse and BHS is catering to players like me. What did the OP want exactly? He felt the gear grind was too hard. Okay, and so what if EME makes it easier. Then what? You'll just get bored quickly again, and have nothing to do.

For 90% of their customers, ones who log in, run a few dungeons, do their dailies, then go to work. The rate of progression is fine. Perhaps you've never played an MMO before, and think that because WoW did X better, WoW's way was correct.


Ok so, if you read what the op wrote you'd know what he wants its pretty clear. Just because someone points out the flaws in a game doesn't mean they're obligated to provide solution because someone else gets paid to do that or paid not to >:O. Next, you aren't 60 and are commenting on an end game you haven't seen yet? Minus 5 relevance to anything you said. From a business standpoint "comparing to WoW hurrhurr" is exactly what developers need to be doing TO AN EXTENT. I will again refer to Aion-thats what happens when you dont heed your player base and or games which set record in your genre. You seem to be easily satisfied and I'm sure companies love players like you who will gladly pay sub fees and ignore the things they could/couldve done differently to make a better experience for the rest of us.


Wrong again, I level with my two brothers, and we play over Skype. Our Lancer Slayer Mystic trio has been blazing through the content. But you are assuming we are not immensely critical of the horrible quest polish from 52-56. Or the round about quest flow at 58-60 that makes you kill, rekill and go through the area yet again. To complete your quest for minimal EXP turn in.

Thing is, you seem to think, if a game has any faults, the game as a whole is terrible. WoW is very flawed, it is very, very flawed. But what it does well, it does really well. And what it does badly, it tries to change and make better. The same is true for Tera.

What works in Korea, does not work in the West. I am having fun playing Tera, I have been following it for 2 years now. And have quite a fair bit of experience, with the core of the game, it's creation, going back 5 years. That has more to do with the game as a whole then 75% of a level, that supposedly invalidates my entire argument. Please.

I have no issue with what the OP said, I did play Everquest for years, and Final Fantasy XI for years. So i'm sorry if hearing people in 2012 complaining about "grind" makes me chuckle. Or comparing Tera an Aion. If you think Aion was grindy, you never played Everquest back in the day. That used to be the golden age of MMOs.
Fatra Profile Options #45

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Dont get me wrong I obviously like Tera-which is why I'm wanting this stuff to come to light. I refer to Aion is a good example to publishers of what NOT to do when adapting a korean game to western audiences. I'm aware that Tera's grind isnt anything like Aions and neither compare to EQ. I get old mmo players having the back in my day view on things but ok-honestly if a car company released a car you still handle to turn a crank on to start in 2012 you wouldnt be like oh this is classic youd be like what the F***!! because you expect progress and learning to occur from ones who have gone before and made mistake or great successes.

I said minus 5 relevance because the post is about endgame. I could go on for ages about the awful lvling after 50 XD. Again as well the rng/money sink is different from an outright grind. Its worse and as a subscription based game I find it in very bad form.
Edited by: Fatra about 1 year ago
ReiKoji Profile Options #46

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Brolistic on 05/21/2012, 01:49 AM - view
Fatra on 05/21/2012, 01:15 AM


Time to progress=/= rng progression. I would not mind something that took time or money as long as it was a sure thing. When I farm a ton and run the same 2 instances for fodder just to fail its just not fun. I've been 60 since the Friday after launch along with a year of KTera under my belt. The way this game has character progression set now is simply just not fun. When I was playing KTera I knew certain things would have to change for NA and some did-but some didn't and I believe its going to hurt the success of Tera.


The point I was trying to make before, was that unlucky players with limited play time could go large amounts of real life time with nothing to show for it in game. The less time spent engaging in RNG based progression, the less likely you are to near the average rate of successes and failures. Casual players who attempt far fewer enchants than hardcore gamers are much more likely to hit a 100% failure rate.

Currently, the speed of gear progression is determined by RNG. I'd much rather it'd be determined by time spent, effort, and player skill.


Quite something you would expect from a game advertized as skill based. But the reality is the end-game of TERA is both gear and skill based.Gear Mainly being very expensive crystals that can break - a penalty they should remove to stabilize the prices of actually worthy crystals. I've had dps do balders last boss without scrolls and potions so those aren't a factor, but they had the gear and the competency to do it.

They took the chance going negative on failing an enchant attempt out of NA tera, but as the OP said, thats not enough. End Game is still a fight against RNG if you want to move up to hard modes, something that can be squelched also by doing what OP suggested with enchanting. It would be nice if they also showed the chance of success when you pop all the items into the enchanting window.

A great majority of players in this game don't want to use the expensive green crystals because of breakage, especially not in LFD. The current random server lag has struck many times, against me and against others. Blink glitch causes you sorc/healer to get blasted by the lazer. Skill delay causes dodgers to miss their dodge by like .9 seconds and get blasted by the lazer. Same for when boss decides to walk-in-place destroy and no one ever has enough balance and/or skill delays cause them to get staggered/kocked down/trampled/death. If they simply would kill of all the worthless crystals or consolidate certain crystals into one type, such as take minion, normal, and boss damage redux crystals and make them into just % Damage redux to all monsters, or deal % more damage to Minion, Boss, And normal monster and make one for all monsters, it will solve a lot of problems with crystal breakage.Crystal breaking shouldn't be a punishment for being new to the fight or being SoL or not having the right gear period for the fight.

Most people can say the ilvl requirement for Balders temple, Hardmode fane, and hardmode balders are pretty much wrong. I have yet to try it, but many including my friend at work who has tried it say you need +8 or +9 gear to have much of a shot at doing hard modes. Well, when you have all +8 and all the gold level 60 rings, earrings, and necklace from fane/balders normal, your item level will already be 146/147. 4 points above whats listed may not seem like a lot, but that is far above having all lvl60 non-enchanted gear vs having enchanted lvl60 gear. They should raise the ilvl requirement to queue for the hard modes, not that anyone really queues for them anyways, but as they are they are just more crystal-break bait.

On the funny flip-side. If we were able to do nexus, I wonder how many people would have bothered burning gold on enchanting t12 gear when they could have gotten t13 gear :( I know I wouldn't have.
Edited by: ReiKoji about 1 year ago
Lestrade Profile Options #47

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Squishington on 05/21/2012, 01:54 AM - view
The endgame is monotonous and ill-fitted for the NA playerbase.

Lack of training grounds and the removal of dungeons leading up to Fane make it harder than it should be.



OP's description is fairly accurate:

Doing the same thing 50 times so you can do the next thing 50 times is tedious, and under stringent requirements as well.


The timesink wouldn't be as bad if we had more variety and ways to advance our characters... if there were more lvl 60 instances that provided the rewards worth running for, then the endgame might not involve a linear path of cycling between merely two dungeon designs ad infinitum.


^Agreed.
Munchkin Profile Options #48

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@Squishington: Exactly. We need variety. I don't want to do PvE dungeons hundreds of times in order to get gear to PvP effectively. I just want to PvP. That's just me though. Some people love the PvE, and those people may end up the most disappointed.

@ReiKoji: I agree wholeheartedly on your crystal idea. If they combined certain types and got rid of certain others, there would be a larger pool of actually useful crystals. Showing the % chance of successfully enchanting would be a nice touch too.

To those who haven't reached 60 and experienced this: I understand your skepticism. It seems like a lot of qqing, yes? Well I hope you keep an eye out for this. Because, when you reach 60, you will be doing the same two instances over and over until you either quit or roll an alt. It's so maddeningly monotonous I really can't take it anymore.

To those who say you will be fine doing Fane and Balder's with just quest gear and no pots/scrolls/charms: You're going to have a bad time.

To those who say I just want things easy: I don't. I just don't like the RNG, the gambling. I'm fine producing multiple gold weapons in order to enchant my weapon one level. I just want my enchanting to depend on time (money) instead of luck and gambling. I'm fine with a time and money sink. If I have a 10% chance to enchant successfully, I would much rather produce 10 gold weapon/armor pieces and have it be guaranteed. The same ends are achieved, with the means averaged among the populace, but with far less frustration.
Mima Profile Options #49

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Not sure if it has been mentioned by OP or the people here.

But don't forget doing 10-20 runs in which no enchantable drops :/

Done two HM FoK runs, no T13 enchantable. The RNG on drop rates man, DAT RNG.
gduber Profile Options #50

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Thanks OP, i think I just got over my Tera addiction. I mean I've been hearing people whine about the lack of endgame, but this is straight depressing. No, things shouldn't be handed to people but making it nigh inaccessible is the mirrored extreme and has the same effect in the end. And even if it is nigh inaccessible, there should be something to work toward. Just getting the best gear and parking your toon in the Velkia for people to look at it isn't much of a payoff for so much work.

A good PvP element (BGs, whatever) is the only thing that will keep me playing now. Hopefully it happens because I really like this game thus far but have no interest in paying a monthly fee to farm gold, repeat instances, and fail enchants.