Who Agrees that the Cash Shop needs to go?

Malamasala Profile Options #301

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I think to a large extent it is just the prices being ridiculous.

They can sell you a whole game for 45 dollars, and then they want to sell you a single skin for 10 dollars. The ratio isn't correct here. Perhaps 0.5 dollars per skin would be a suitable price to show that you are just buying more textures, and not a quarter of a game.

One could compare it to selling a pre-made grocery bag for 45 dollars, and then every single extra item you ask for, costs 10-25 dollars. Extra carrots? 10 dollars. Cheese? 20 dollars.

It just is ridiculous and only works because people think "Well, I can afford 20 dollar cheese, I'm not poor".

On the bright side you do not eat textures in the game, so they last longer. But the ratio is still so off between a full game and a fraction of game content.
Nerelith Profile Options #302

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Malamasala on 07/05/2012, 11:26 PM - view
I think to a large extent it is just the prices being ridiculous.

They can sell you a whole game for 45 dollars, and then they want to sell you a single skin for 10 dollars. The ratio isn't correct here. Perhaps 0.5 dollars per skin would be a suitable price to show that you are just buying more textures, and not a quarter of a game.

One could compare it to selling a pre-made grocery bag for 45 dollars, and then every single extra item you ask for, costs 10-25 dollars. Extra carrots? 10 dollars. Cheese? 20 dollars.

It just is ridiculous and only works because people think "Well, I can afford 20 dollar cheese, I'm not poor".

On the bright side you do not eat textures in the game, so they last longer. But the ratio is still so off between a full game and a fraction of game content.


Well to follow your analogy, what makes it worse was you paid 45 bucks for the bag... and then I guess you rented it for 15 a month...but the produce you got was free....free cheese, free carrots.... Now they want to charge you 20 bucks for the carrots.... ok the analogy falls apart about here, maybe it fell apart a while back...

My point is, All of this " vanity item" crap was part of the Monthly...it is Content.

You can call it vanity all you want..but if you were to go into combat you expect to be weilding some type of weapon. The ONLY way a weapon skin is NOT content is if you don't mind fighting with an invisible weapon..... I mean it makes no sense. If it's the default weapon you start with it's Content, and you expect it with your subscription..... but if it's a fancy shmantzy cash shop skin, it's No longer content because some greedy nass with an MBA said to himself..' you know, we can make MORE money, if we ... break up the game...deny them part of it, and then SELL to them what we used to provide for free... they are like the frog in the slow boiling pot... as Long as you raise the heat gradually... they will never complain... heck, maybe we can get them to eventually pay per dungeon.... or pay for a drop.. Kill the Mob, pay a dollar to "unlock" the Mob drop?? why not, they accept everything else."

Just to be clear, I do not share this opinion of the tera player base....if I did i would not be here... but.... EME is Not thinking well of you... and a Lot of people the only thing I can reason out is, they really have not thought this through fully.... why pay for what used to be free? Unless no one can be bothered to quest for the stuff anymore.

Which begs the question...if you pay to get shortcuts from playing... why play?
Alestian Profile Options #303

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I won't be suprised when Enmasse released Potion, Exp Pot in the Cash Shop and the person who sucker in will still defend it.

Chrono Scroll, Item Skin that can be sold in auction house for in game currency is already on it way to an unbalance Cash Shop in a P2P game. It is Pay to Win already, just not as extreme but you can't denied that it give players an edge over another.

When Enmasse released Potion, people will say it is in game already you can buy so it is not pay to win.

When they released Exp Potion, people will say you can do quest and level fast in the game. Everyone can grind and get exp. It is in game already.


Why so many people support the Cash Shop? Do they think the money will go into more Contents update, and fix more bugs? No, it will go into develop more Cash Shop item, lol. Cash Shop are evil and if not handle carefully can ruin a game and turn it into a Free to Play game if it get out of hand.
Silverthorne Profile Options #304

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@Nerelith

I do understand your point, actually (I've read your posts on this subject before). But I also understand we have a difference in philosophy here. To you, it is important to not have to pay more than once for something (in this case, sub plus cash shop items).

To me...well, it's a game, and not real-life changing in any sense other than whether I choose to play it, WoW, Second Life, Perfect Life or RIFT on any chosen night. Beyond that, I understand it's a way for the company to make money, and that the company is not going to change its mind. So I can either waste my time being upset about their business model, or I can enjoy of it what I can. Or, if I decide I don't like it, I can walk away from it.

As for comparing a business model to a war; you're close to Godwinning yourself, here. How a video game does its business is not really comparable to going to the war for the sake of people's lives and freedom. A closer analogy would probably be what kind of car package you could get at Ford compared to, oh, say Hyundai for the same priced car, and whether or not one or the other charged a subscription fee for the 'perks' like the satellite radio along along with the lease fee every month. They're both good cars (for the sake of this comparison, anyway), they both have satellite radio (but hey, you can get by fine on a 'regular radio, too), but one company has decided they want you to pay for it while the other didn't. And constantly going to the 'offender's' forum page probably won't make them drop the satellite payments, either.

So rather than waste my time, I'll either enjoy the car without satellite radio and 'make due' with the regular one....or I'll go buy the other car.

It's all about scope and what's really important in life, both in what you choose to fight for, and ultimately, what's really important to fight for.

(And as a note, I do respect your right to keep fighting, but I also think at this point you really are wasting your time and energy better spent on finding a game that DOES support what you want out of it rather than trying to convert the masses. Again, opinion, but maybe take it to heart?)
Nerelith Profile Options #305

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Silverthorne on 07/06/2012, 03:40 AM - view
@Nerelith

I do understand your point, actually (I've read your posts on this subject before). But I also understand we have a difference in philosophy here. To you, it is important to not have to pay more than once for something (in this case, sub plus cash shop items).

To me...well, it's a game, and not real-life changing in any sense other than whether I choose to play it, WoW, Second Life, Perfect Life or RIFT on any chosen night. Beyond that, I understand it's a way for the company to make money, and that the company is not going to change its mind. So I can either waste my time being upset about their business model, or I can enjoy of it what I can. Or, if I decide I don't like it, I can walk away from it.

As for comparing a business model to a war; you're close to Godwinning yourself, here. How a video game does its business is not really comparable to going to the war for the sake of people's lives and freedom. A closer analogy would probably be what kind of car package you could get at Ford compared to, oh, say Hyundai for the same priced car, and whether or not one or the other charged a subscription fee for the 'perks' like the satellite radio along along with the lease fee every month. They're both good cars (for the sake of this comparison, anyway), they both have satellite radio (but hey, you can get by fine on a 'regular radio, too), but one company has decided they want you to pay for it while the other didn't. And constantly going to the 'offender's' forum page probably won't make them drop the satellite payments, either.

So rather than waste my time, I'll either enjoy the car without satellite radio and 'make due' with the regular one....or I'll go buy the other car.

It's all about scope and what's really important in life, both in what you choose to fight for, and ultimately, what's really important to fight for.

(And as a note, I do respect your right to keep fighting, but I also think at this point you really are wasting your time and energy better spent on finding a game that DOES support what you want out of it rather than trying to convert the masses. Again, opinion, but maybe take it to heart?)


I was not comparing the Game to a war, that would be rediculous. I was comparing the " gee, nothing we can do about it, may as well accept it." type of attitude to ...well, you know where I went.

Facts are that One can say to oneself." this will never change" but.... how do you know? Maybe if ONLY 1 of our Founding fathers alone had said " I am NOT paying this stamp tax. " hmmm pretty similar if you think about it for a Moment.... Big Unchanging Organization, with the power to enforce it's will on others, telling a group of weaker people..." this is just the way it is, and there is nothing you can do about it."

Well... One person by themselves Just gets locked up by the Brits and that's that.

But There is streength in Numbers.... another example of voting with your Pocket. Remember Apartheid in South Africa? And remember the letter writing campaign to companies Like Reebok, that did business with it? Remember the Boycott? I am sure that 1 person By themselves could Not have done a thing about it.

Am I saying that this game is as important as The War for Independance or apartheid? hell no... I am sorry you got that impression.

All I was saying was... that the attitude is self-defeating... and we are, and should be Glad this July 4th weekend that our founding fathers did not share yours about making large near omnipotent organizations to accept that " we're mad as hell, and not gonna take it anymore." to quote some Newscaster On some Movie...

Try and see it from My perspective... not Godwinning at all... just comparing self-defeating attitudes, and what it will never accomplish... to the Power of numbers and what it can :-)

PS: About taking your opinion to heart, come on, do you seriously think I am about to give up? You said it yourself... me and my windmill tilting...:-) * runs off On her donkey singing " To dream....the impossible dream!!!!!!...."
Edited by: Nerelith 11 months ago
Silverthorne Profile Options #306

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@Nereltih

Except that I don't see it as self defeating--since I know there are other games out there that will give me what I want (or give you what you want). I see it as using my time and energy more wisely.

Forcing a single company to do what I want? Not worth my time. Give me a petition that says (for example), 'no company should be allowed to gouge their customers this way and it should be law'? Yeah, that I'll get behind, because it actually targets the whole industry, and not just the one particurlaly company I'm having a problem with (and that won;t really address the problem when future companies adopt the same model).

I'm good with voting with my wallet; not so much on complaining about a single entity in a sea of entities doing the same thing. I know I have other places I can go to to get what I want.

And yeah, when you start dragging out big scale analogies, it can come across wrong in comparisons if you're not precise about the point you're trying to make. Probably would have been better to just say 'I believe in starting with small things--petitions with one company at a time--and that it can work *Cite examples*' rather than go out on a limb with a general comparison on a grand scale--the point was a bit lost.

Anyway, I'm off to work. Thank you for the conversation (and good luck).
Capulet Profile Options #307

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Silverthorne on 07/06/2012, 04:46 AM - view
@Nereltih

Except that I don't see it as self defeating--since I know there are other games out there that will give me what I want (or give you what you want). I see it as using my time and energy more wisely.

Forcing a single company to do what I want? Not worth my time. Give me a petition that says (for example), 'no company should be allowed to gouge their customers this way and it should be law'? Yeah, that I'll get behind, because it actually targets the whole industry, and not just the one particurlaly company I'm having a problem with (and that won;t really address the problem when future companies adopt the same model).

I'm good with voting with my wallet; not so much on complaining about a single entity in a sea of entities doing the same thing. I know I have other places I can go to to get what I want.

And yeah, when you start dragging out big scale analogies, it can come across wrong in comparisons if you're not precise about the point you're trying to make. Probably would have been better to just say 'I believe in starting with small things--petitions with one company at a time--and that it can work *Cite examples*' rather than go out on a limb with a general comparison on a grand scale--the point was a bit lost.

Anyway, I'm off to work. Thank you for the conversation (and good luck).


Forgive me... but you are missing the point.

They are not gouging their customers. This is an OPTIONAL service. You don't NEED these items.

And frankly if you cannot afford to spend $10 on something then you need to stop playing this game. You're expecting handouts.

Most of you will move to Gw2. And there will be a cash shop there, and I will mostly be spending money there. Why? Because I can. Life isn't fair.... I really would have hoped you all learned this by now. But get over it.
HauntingBard Profile Options #308

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My gripe with the cash shop in a P2P MMO is this.


They use money from subs to design items/content for the cash shops.
That's not why people play a P2P MMO ,so the company spends the money on cash shops instead of content.
Better said fluff is content you have to pay double for, first your sub money is for design and than another 25 dollar for say a mount.


Which puts you P2P crowd for a choice 'if I sub I pay partly for them designing cash shop items'.
You also realize that when this gets accepted they will not release ANY FLUFF in game as content.
Just look at Ktera for one.


The reason is because a P2P MMORPG is based on establishing a longer relationship with your community so they provide you with a steady income.

By going down the cash shop road you show you aren't interested in this as company and thus you scare off the P2P crowd since starting a P2P MMO usually means you want to play it longer then a year.


More cash shop items hints towards a F2P model since you can use them once the game goes F2P.
In other words you show you have no interest in keeping people subbed, you are using the P2P model as a cash grab to go F2P in the future.




Personally I find it a better business model to release a lot of fluff but sell some things in a 'cash shop'.
The longer you sub the more points you get the more 'vanity items' you can pick.
Pay a bit extra and you can have them all.


This way you reward people that sub for longer, and sell items that EVERYONE CAN OBTAIN.
You show that you want to keep a P2P MMO but you also acknowledge that you want make more money since yes it's about that.

How does it work?
Say you got 100 fluff items, you put 50 in the cash shop and 50 in game.

Now 1 month sub= 1 item
3 months sub=4
6 months= 7

Keeps people subbed encourages longer subs and you can keep drilling out fluff so people will never get all of it unless they pay up.
Balance it in game and cash shop and done.


In Enmasse case they went overboard, Tera has little end game lots of promises didn't make it in release and soon there will be more fluff in the cash shop than in game.
You are paying them to do this, simple as that.

They show no interest in keeping Tera P2P and thus the game will become F2P and will start sucking like all the other F2P games.



Edited by: HauntingBard 11 months ago
Malamasala Profile Options #309

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Capulet on 07/06/2012, 06:21 AM - view
They are not gouging their customers. This is an OPTIONAL service. You don't NEED these items.


PvP or endgame is not needed either. It is just something that keeps people playing longer.

New skins make people play longer.

If EME rather wants fast cash, but a drop in customers, then cash shops is the way to go. If EME wants to build up a larger community, then they need to add more free content.

That is not to say they aren't doing both. It is just that what they are doing is costing them customers at the benefit of getting rich faster.
Nerelith Profile Options #310

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Malamasala on 07/06/2012, 09:59 AM - view
Capulet on 07/06/2012, 06:21 AM
They are not gouging their customers. This is an OPTIONAL service. You don't NEED these items.


PvP or endgame is not needed either. It is just something that keeps people playing longer.

New skins make people play longer.

If EME rather wants fast cash, but a drop in customers, then cash shops is the way to go. If EME wants to build up a larger community, then they need to add more free content.

That is not to say they aren't doing both. It is just that what they are doing is costing them customers at the benefit of getting rich faster.


QFT. Leaves some of us feeling that they anticipate it going Free2play , and therefore are grabbing as much cash as they can.