100% HP pots + pvp

Mugsie Profile Options #111

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tamernator on 03/25/2012, 04:30 PM - view
StanleyCleaner on 03/25/2012, 01:41 PM
We should just take away weapons, armor, spells and anything that can be used to give an edge in combat. Only naked combat with everyone at 100 HP seems fair.

Oh..... but then when you die you will complain about LAG, computer builds and then you will find something else to [filtered] about too.

Anything else that we can blame ?


Armor and weapons do not make you to fight for 1 hour in order to kill 1 guy, but pots do


Seriously stop complaining. give me armor and a weapon and it will take way longer than one hour to beat me... i will run loops around you suckers and heal myself all day. my mana never ends so quit ure whining. Leave the potion alone, maybe you should stop sucking for a minute or go l2p
tamernator Profile Options #112

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Mugsie on 03/25/2012, 05:02 PM - view
tamernator on 03/25/2012, 04:30 PM
StanleyCleaner on 03/25/2012, 01:41 PM
We should just take away weapons, armor, spells and anything that can be used to give an edge in combat. Only naked combat with everyone at 100 HP seems fair.

Oh..... but then when you die you will complain about LAG, computer builds and then you will find something else to [filtered] about too.

Anything else that we can blame ?


Armor and weapons do not make you to fight for 1 hour in order to kill 1 guy, but pots do


Seriously stop complaining. give me armor and a weapon and it will take way longer than one hour to beat me... i will run loops around you suckers and heal myself all day. my mana never ends so quit ure whining. Leave the potion alone, maybe you should stop sucking for a minute or go l2p

Im sure you feel yourself a hero after those words. Buti will make u suck any day u choose.
Travail Profile Options #113

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StanleyCleaner on 03/25/2012, 01:41 PM - view
We should just take away weapons, armor, spells and anything that can be used to give an edge in combat. Only naked combat with everyone at 100 HP seems fair.

Oh..... but then when you die you will complain about LAG, computer builds and then you will find something else to [filtered] about too.

Anything else that we can blame ?


Again, this isn't comparable. Weapons and armor are factored into class balance. That's why different classes wear different types of armor, and weapons of the same tier have different stats for different classes. A Berzerker axe at tier 7 has more damage on it than a tier 7 Archer bow, which has more damage on it than tier 7 Twin Swords for a Warrior, because the devs have taken into account class balance. Give all of those classes weapons with truly identical stats, or put them all in identical armor, and class balance is fubar.

Just like giving all of those classes a 100% heal on a 30 second cooldown, without taking into account the fact that some classes can put that to better use than others, and some classes can counter a 30-second heal better than others.

-Travail.
tamernator Profile Options #114

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Travail on 03/25/2012, 07:08 PM - view
StanleyCleaner on 03/25/2012, 01:41 PM
We should just take away weapons, armor, spells and anything that can be used to give an edge in combat. Only naked combat with everyone at 100 HP seems fair.

Oh..... but then when you die you will complain about LAG, computer builds and then you will find something else to [filtered] about too.

Anything else that we can blame ?


Again, this isn't comparable. Weapons and armor are factored into class balance. That's why different classes wear different types of armor, and weapons of the same tier have different stats for different classes. A Berzerker axe at tier 7 has more damage on it than a tier 7 Archer bow, which has more damage on it than tier 7 Twin Swords for a Warrior, because the devs have taken into account class balance. Give all of those classes weapons with truly identical stats, or put them all in identical armor, and class balance is fubar.

Just like giving all of those classes a 100% heal on a 30 second cooldown, without taking into account the fact that some classes can put that to better use than others, and some classes can counter a 30-second heal better than others.

-Travail.

I understand what he is trying to say, that pots are a part of the game, i agree with that BUT.... 30 sec cooldown is too low for 100% HP pot , how you are trying to kill Lancer with 30 sec 100% pots ?
Wanna fight for 1 hour to kill that lancer ? (i mean 1vs1) I dont wnat that long battles sorry.
Also you will never kill anyone with Lancer if he uses those 30 sec pots ,becuz your DMG as a LAncer wont be enought to kill him, unless you bring Bersrrker and one or two shot him
Edited by: tamernator about 1 year ago
Travail Profile Options #115

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tamernator on 03/25/2012, 07:15 PM - view
I understand what he is trying to say, that pots are a part of the game, i agree with that BUT.... 30 sec cooldown is too low for 100% HP pot , how you are trying to kill Lancer with 30 sec 100% pots ?
Wanna fight for 1 hour to kill that lancer ? (i mean 1vs1) I dont wnat that long battles sorry.
Also you will never kill anyone with Lancer if he uses those 30 sec pots ,becuz your DMG as a LAncer wont be enought to kill him, unless you bring Bersrrker and one or two shot him


This isn't like saying, "The Sun is part of our solar system, and there's nothing we can do about it. Sorry."

Potions, specifically these 100% healing potions, are only in the game because the devs choose to put them there. And the devs can choose to take them out, if they feel it's warranted. So, I'm making my voice heard.

A feature of an MMO does not deserve to exist by virtue of existing. The fact that these potions ARE in the game is irrelevant in the discussion about whether they SHOULD be in the game.

-Travail.
Edited by: Travail about 1 year ago
Jackiee Profile Options #116

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Some people are being particularly blind to the issue. This isnt a case of "I have them and they have them so its fair". As someone else mentioned, we could give a 1 shot ability to every class on a 2min cool down which by the same logic would be fair, but clearly isnt. The term for something being made available to everybody but being imbalanced is called "power creep". It is when class skills and consumables play too much of a role in the outcome of a fight that player skill itself doesnt determine victory.

For example if every class has the power to 2 shot others, within the period of a 2 skill kill the opponent isnt given the time to demonstrate his skill by countering. He is given limited room within which to influence the outcome of the fight. The same is said for 100% HP pots on this cool down. The role of skill becomes less significant due to the power of the pots. So instead of a skill based fight the game becomes "pot wars". Whoever spent more time farming chests in the open world is more likely to succeed in pvp.

The power of 100% HP pots is only compounded by the presence of safe zones. People are very easily able to withdraw from a fight by retreating to a safe zone, and should the RNG CC actually restrain them from that goal, the 100% HP pot will save them.

Now I understand all is fair in OWPvP. However even in OW, the PvP should still feel like just that, PvP. If people here are so ready to say "its a pvp server, if you get ganked deal with it" then why arent we ready to force those in danger of getting PKed to fight back?

Honestly if I play a game where every time I engage someone they pot and run, then I will not continue to play. It is no longer a matter of "use the tools at your disposal". Its a matter of I do not have the power to kill someone anymore. Everybody has the option to run and to pot, but these options favor those who choose not to pvp, and as a pvper myself on a pvp server this is a very evident flaw. I can overlook RNG combat, people 2 shotting crap and grinding for my gear, but at least after all that, I should be allowed to have pvp when I desire, not have everyone pot off and run.

TL;DR, 100% HP soup should be on a 3 min cool down and anyone who claims otherwise doesnt have the first clue to actual balance with respect to consumables/pvp/fun factor. The reasons for why were listed above.
Edited by: Jackiee about 1 year ago
Keyral Profile Options #117

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Kiros Lvl.60
Mount Tyrannas (PVP)
Popori Sorcerer
Seeing a bunch of crying in this thread.... Good stuff..

Here's what I see

"When I'm in PVP i'm too excited to remember things like Potions so If I can't remember why should the person I'm dueling be able to remember"

"I NPC or always forget to bring or buy potions, why should I hafta fight a bunch of people who are intelligent and remember when i'm too stupid to remember"

Yada yada yada cry cry cry ect ect ect
Fatwa Profile Options #118

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Qoute Lvl.1
Valley of Titans (PVP)
Popori Warrior
Keyral on 03/26/2012, 05:27 AM - view
Seeing a bunch of crying in this thread.... Good stuff..

Here's what I see

"When I'm in PVP i'm too excited to remember things like Potions so If I can't remember why should the person I'm dueling be able to remember"

"I NPC or always forget to bring or buy potions, why should I hafta fight a bunch of people who are intelligent and remember when i'm too stupid to remember"

Yada yada yada cry cry cry ect ect ect


Interesting, here is what I see:

Hey, you've got a 30s potion that does the same thing as a 2hr racial ability - which was designed as a 2hr racial ability for balancing issues. Additionally, this 30s potion can only be acquired via RNG. It cannot be bought from a vendor, crafted, or farmed from a mob.

The people focusing on the feedback are not discussing regular potions that are available to anyone on a consistent basis.
Mushimushi Profile Options #119

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Camera.Cat Lvl.1
Mount Tyrannas (PVP)
Popori Lancer
Ahh, I was looking for a post about this.

I'm not going to read the whole thread, but I'll assume it's basicly people in in favour vs people against.

I would like to set my stance and thus feedback as the OP: I do not like these soups. And this is coming from someone that PvPs with bandages and crafted 3min / 15min potions all the damn time.

I don't believe full heal items should ever be introduced in the open world and most definitely they should not come from random rewards. These simply should not exist, specialy in PvP servers.

I understand they are rare and there's little to win in a pvp server from killing in open world and that if you force your oponent to use one that's one less soup he'll ever use, but in the end it all comes down to how available these things end up being.

I do not like pot spaming pvp. It's lame.

---

On another note, super powered items can make the basis for special raid/instance-type events, where game rules are bent by the use of items found only inside such instance and which are no longer useful outside of it. FFXI implements this idea very well by introducing gameplay changing items that cause crazy effects in specific instances while balancing the content of such instance around the existance of these items.
Edited by: Mushimushi about 1 year ago - Reason: Cause I can't properly use the verb "bend".
Xiouslaidyn Profile Options #120

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Ahmon on 03/17/2012, 11:40 AM - view
Socio on 03/17/2012, 02:04 AM
A fight should be a fight. Won by the better/smarter player with maybe some help from consumables once or twice. Not a war over who spent more money on the auction house buying full heal potions to spam as soon as the (short) cooldowns are up.

Why not? They're a part of the game. If you go into a fight less prepared you should lose. You clearly did not outplay the Sorceror in the video. Your preparatioms countered his. Period.


He obviously played better than the other sorc. You must be a pot-wielding moron as well to fail at seeing that.