I was going to post this in the thread regarding PvP skill hypocrisy, but since it took me awhile to write, I'd like to know that atleast a few people will read it.

The only reason BGs will destroy OWPvP is if they have better rewards. If I can get a piece of gear after completing 3 or 4 BGs, compared to farming open world kills/ganking for hours, clearly I will choose the BGs. That being said, I also dislike the system of being able to get gear whether you win or lose a BG. This happened in WoW and SWTOR and was the leading reason why people claim that “MMOs these days hand out gear like candy” or “everybody is a winner” or all the other sayings people have been spreading around like cancer. Not that I don’t agree with them, I just tend to dislike the manner in which people say them. Also, it seems that most of the arguments against instanced PvP are based on these systems where rewards were given to both sides regardless of win or loss. Systems like these can encourage people to join a battleground and not focus at all at winning, because even if they lose, they can still get rewards. This was especially dramatic in SWTOR where the reward difference between a loss and win was almost non-existent. People would just queue up, sit on a node, proceed to afk and collect their winnings. Atrocious. What makes you think that EME will follow in their footsteps?

Regarding the adrenaline aspect of OWPvP compared to BGs, I believe similar rushes can be achieved in both fields. I agree that one gets quite a heated rush when jumping a couple of equal level players (not giving a [filtered]) and slaying them, or surviving a gank attempt when you stood no chance. However these rushes are not exclusive to the open world. For example, in a CTF scenario when you go on a hunt to slay their flag carrier in the late minutes of a tied match, see that he is surrounded by a couple of his homies and without enough time to wait for backup you dive in, blowing every cooldown you have to barely get the killing blow and return the flag before you die. That is a rush. You single-handedly changed the outcome of the game due to superior tactical and combat prowess, and felt badass while doing it.

Some of you have said that you prefer OWPvP because of its consequential based nature. If you are killed by a player while questing you have the inconvenience of having to travel back to where you were to continue with your objectives, thus taking time from you, or possibly losing items, which cost coin/time to replace. If you succeed in your clash, you have the glory of victory and the benefit of having the area to yourself for farming/gathering/frolicking, whatever suites your desire. The consequences of dying in a BG can be equal if not MORE than that of the open world. While not every death in a BG has an impact on the outcome of the game, there are certainly times when you living or dying will determine whether your team will win or lose. For example, let’s say you and your healer buddy are defending a node that is currently winning the game for you, and you come under attack by 4 members of the opposing team. If either of you die, the other won’t be able to survive, but through skilled teamwork you just might be able to hold out until either help arrives or the game ends. Dying at that point will lose the game, and you would have wasted the past 10-20 minutes you were in the game, gaining no coin or XP or PvP rewards. If wasting 20 minutes of your valuable gaming time for no benefit isn’t a huge consequence, I don’t know what would be.

In reference to skill, I can’t think of a single valid argument one could make saying that there is more skill involved in OWPvP than in BGs. Most, not all, but most of OWPvP is based on level/number advantages where skill doesn’t come into play at all. Being able to mount your horse and run to a town aka “surviving a gank attempt” does not reflect PvP skill. Ganking a player who is 2 levels below you and was fighting a mob doesn’t constitute skillful play. There are certainly situations where skilled play can be the difference between life and death in the open world but I would say that is the case less than 50% time. In battlegrounds not only do you have more even combat where individual skill matters more, but you also have to strategize with your team to win in an environment where you have the same advantages/disadvantages as the other team.

With all that being said, I love OWPvP. I enjoy ganking people just as much as the next guy; either because we are competing for mobs/resources, or just because I felt like it. I like rolling with my friends in a terror squad and killing everything in sight, until a larger terror squad ruins our fun. I also hate being ganked as much as anyone else. But I understand the rush that people refer to and like to level in a competitive world where danger lurks behind every corner. MY REAL QUESITON IS, why can we not coexist? What is with this sense of elitism from these “hardcore PvPers” who resist all talk of battlegrounds and instanced PvP. Like I said in the beginning, the only real way it will affect their gameplay is if EME rewards players more for participating in BGs, which doesn’t have to be the case. The only reason I can think of for this animosity towards BGs is that they only enjoy killing players. They don’t enjoy objective based games where they have to actually communicate and use teamwork and strategy, where it’s more complicated than chasing down the red names and killing them. If that’s your cup of tea, stay in the world. Others of us wish to put our combative and strategic skills to the test in an environment that isn’t based around how many people you have.

TL;DR
BGs only destroy OWPvP if the rewards from BGs are better. I disagree wholeheartedly with instanced PvP that rewards both the winning and losing team. Adrenaline rushes are not limited to OWPvP and occur often in intense BGs. There are just as many consequences associated with losing a BG as with dying in the open world. Less than 50% of OWPvP situations involve skill. Most of the time the victorious party is the party with the most people. OWPvP is great. Let us have our BGs as well.

I agree with the OP, from what seems to be an unbiased point of view on the fight between OWPvP and the BG system.

But, i have to point out something. A lot of the OWPvPers do believe that the BG system will out right crush OWPvP the day it comes out ( and it just might ). What do YOU think will happen if EME decides to roll out an instanced PvP system with no rewards just to fight on an OBJECTIVE BASED SYSTEM. I'd like to know what you think.

Yea, agreed. The reward system tends to really be the source of issues for most games when BGs drain OW of PvP. However, what most people forget with Tera is that because of the channel system, reducing players will reduce the number of channels before it truly affects the saturation of players.

Quote: Hunter88 on 05/02/2012, 01:33 PM - view

Honestly, I would be fine with a reward-less BG system. Not only would it just be good ol' fashioned fun, but it would also provide a perfect arena to hone your PvP skills. As where in OWPvP there can be little to no actual fighting. I think a stat tracker associated with the BGs could be enough incentive for those that would need it, i.e kill/death win/loss ratios. For me, I just like good competition.

If they decided to eventually add gear that was purchasable through points earned in PvP, I would obviously want rewards for BGs as well. To add to that, I would completely accept the rewards in BGs being substantially less than that of OWPvP. If EME is trying to gear the game more toward OWPvP, then have the BGs be more of a training area, designed to prepare players for the harsh climate of OWPvP. Some might make the argument that dueling is enough of a way to practice ones skills, to whom I say some classes are not designed around 1v1 combat.

In the end, the PvP will shift to whichever form offers more incentives for player. So we'll see what EME does.

You have to reward both sides. Otherwise it's nearly impossible to get going in PvP once a game has been out a while. Who cares when people say "handing out gear"? Anyone who pvps knows that's completely false anyways. Carebears fear PvP like the plague and will say anything to diminish it.

BGs also give a better PvP experience on short notice. World PvP is fun, but it's not quickly accessible most of the time. Besides world PvP is who has more people most of the time anyways, which while fine isn't exactly representative of any kind of skill. BGs at least offer a fair, more or less, battle.

Both should be rewarded equally ideally, but the nature of world PvP makes it difficult to reward properly, it's so sporadic/random.

Quote: MrThebigcheese on 05/02/2012, 03:08 PM - view

This ^

Open world pvp is a gankfest. And contrary to popular belief, ganking isnt pvp. It's "we have more people than you, or we are higher level and you don't stand a chance".

At least instanced pvp has even numbers and an objective. While I love open world pvp (from UO days) it's not really that great. Sure there will be a couple battles here and there where the numbers are kinda balanced, but most times is 3vYou or 10v3 which sucks.

Quote: hardfought on 05/02/2012, 07:32 PM - view

From where I come from . Ganking were people fighting other people who stood no chance of winning. It"s the player having an unfair advantage in a fair context over someone else.

For instance. The Stealher 1 shotting mage. He was ganked. Or the Low RR PUG group running into a stacked high RR group and getting killed faster than a Yorkshire in the mouth of a shark.

On the other side. There's the people that just want to make your time miserable. They will stalk you, camp your corpse and do everything in their power to make you miserable. That probably the reason next gen mmorpg has instanced zone now a day.


Ganking is actually PVP.

Quote: Jupet on 05/02/2012, 11:58 PM - view

I am well aware that ganking is PvP, and I have nothing against it. Every player that rolls on a PvP server has the right to corpse camp anyone they please, and at the same time waves their right to not be harassed while adventuring in the world.

The argument in my original post was not aimed at glorifying BGs vs OWPvP, but rather to illegitimize the resistance of instanced PvP. --- It seems that 'illegitimize' is not word, but it should be.

Yea, ganking is PvP and everyone has a right to it...but for those of us that want to earn our kills, we deserve a good, fair platform to do this as well.

Quote: Dahkeus on 05/03/2012, 06:02 AM - view

Agreed.

Like I mentioned before, often times in OWPvP there is no good hardy combat. Most of it is just a zergfest/gankfest where even fights are few and far between. Which is fine, and can be very entertaining; thought after awhile it can get very old.