Comprehensive PvP Feedback

Notturno Profile Options #1

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Hello everyone,

I'm from Cerberus, a community and guild from the Basilisk Crag server. We have a fair amount of Guild versus Guild wins under our belt, and I believe it's fair to say we have a fairly good grasp on the mechanics and strategies currently surrounding that aspect of the game. I wanted to take some time on behalf of my community, and potentially other members of the greater PVP community in TERA, to voice some concerns regarding the state of Player versus Player in the game.

Before I start, I just want to clarify that this thread is not an ultimatum thread, it is not a complaint thread, nor is it a slight at En Masse Entertainment or Bluehole. I want to hopefully begin some discourse and feedback regarding how the community wishes to improve the game, make the PvP more enjoyable, and add some longevity and depth to the game.

Bug Stomping

Right now there are a few bugs that are plaguing players participating in PvP, one of which is completely altering the balance dynamic due to its severity. Some of these bugs should be quick fixes, and will add a monumental improvement to the quality of life for PvP in general.

Charge Up Sticking

Right now there's a bug that affects all charge up an abilities, such as; Thunder Strike, Cyclone, Mana Charge, Radiant Arrow, and Penetrating Shot. If a player uses a charge up ability and gets hit by a stun or sleep spell, they get stuck in their charge up state. They are unable to attack or break the charge, which leaves them unable to do damage and makes them sitting ducks. This is a massive issue that makes using charge up abilities a serious risk, and makes specific classes less viable in PvP situations. While I obviously cannot dictate how to fix the issue, or even pretend to know all of the complexities behind the programming, it is something that desperately needs to be fixed for the sake of retaining the PvP community.

Warrior & Slayer Skill: Backstab

There are two core issues surrounding Backstab right now; there is an incline acquisition issue for players, and there's a severe camera delay associated with the teleport. Whenever a target is not on the exact same elevation as you, there is a high likelihood that the Backstab skill will result in simply slashing in front of you and eating your cooldown. The teleport and stun do not occur, but the skill is consumed with no effect. When the skill does manage to go off, there is a delay on the camera following the player to the location, so it becomes quite difficult to continue attacking your target when your camera is far away from your character and facing the opposite way of the character's direction.

Slayer Skill: Heart Thrust

Whenever a player is knocked down, the player hitbox changes to a horizontal target, rather than vertical. This creates an issue where Heart Thrust does not always connect when it should. Heart Thrust also suffers the same issue as Backstab, in that it does not always work when there's any elevation difference between the Slayer and the target.

PvP Suggestions

The following PvP suggestions are aimed at overarching systems regarding both open world PvP and Guild versus Guild engagements.

General: Town Hugging

Right now a lot of open world PvP, particularly Guild versus Guild battles, are centered around hugging safe zones. What happens is that people will peek out of a safe zone to try and do damage, then pop back into the safe zone a fraction of a second later to avoid retaliation.

What needs to happen is an active combatant debuff; whenever you deal damage to another player or suffer damage from another player, you should receive the debuff. This debuff should keep you PvP flagged, meaning you can also be attacked in safe zones, until you suffer no damage or deal no damage for the five second period. Town hugging right now creates an experience that is not conducive to encouraging active fighting, but tapping each other and talking trash. This debuff would provide a solution to the much rued town hugging issue, and result in more PvP participation as a whole.

General: Statistic Tracking & Progression

Right now there's very little incentive to PvP. Unless you are staking goods in deathmatches, you get nothing for participating in PvP. While this is fine for a while, it would be nice to have something to encourage progression and continual participation while we wait for battlegrounds. For example, could we perhaps get a counter for PvP kills and deaths in our character sheet? Some server leaderboards would also give us something to strive for in the PvP community. Anything that encourages PvP progression and participation would go a long way in sustaining the PvP community.

GvG: Guild Master Status

As has been evidenced by certain guilds, people will do whatever it takes to get a GvG win. This includes swapping their guild master to an alt character and parking them in a safe zone. The simple solution to this would be to make guild master status an account wide flag, rather than a character flag. This would force guild masters to either be active participants in their GvG fights, or purchase the game on a second account. Either way, this would stomp out the majority of the participants involved in this practice.

GvG: Guild Master Point Acquisition

Another issue surrounding guild master status is that there is no incentive to participate in GvG as a guild master. Risking your life results in a ten point loss, while scoring a kill gives you the same standard single point. The risk versus reward is one of the core reasons for the above issue of people swapping guild master status to an alt; you gain nothing for risking everything. If a guild master scores a kill in a GvG battle, they should gain more than the standard single point; whether this means two points or five, anything more than one would make the risk worth taking in many situations.

GvG: Level Restrictions on Point Acquisition

Another big issue surrounding GvG right now is the preying on low level players and alt characters. Regardless of the level discrepancy, there is no penalty for killing low level players in a GvG, nor is there any point difference. This creates a multi-faceted problem that is both not enjoyable for players, as well as being detrimental to the overall health of TERA. Let me explain...

* By making low level players vulnerable, you are forcing alt characters and new players to remain outside of active, warring guilds.
* Discouraging new and alt characters from joining guilds makes the guilds appear less active, and discourages socialization amongst players.
* New players never get to experience a guild community. Having that social connection with a guild obviously encourages subscriber retention, which is vital to the health and survival of TERA.

Due to the way level scaling operates in this game, no amount of skill can overcome certain level gaps between players. There should be a maximum level discrepancy between GvG combatants before points are counted towards the war; anyone with a gap larger than five levels should not generate any points towards a war.

This encourages guilds to actively seek out new players to join their ranks, as well as encourages people to house their alts in their guild. At the same time, it also gives low level players the opportunity to participate and contribute to a war, without being a major liability to the guild as easy prey for high levels.

GvG: Permanent War History

Similar to the problem outlined earlier about the lack of progression and statistics tracking, there's very little incentive to participate in GvG beyond simply the experience of warring against another guild. The guild battle history expires after a certain period of time, which erases any prestige gained by defeating another guild. It would be great if guild battle history was not erased at all, and there was some sort of leaderboard that tracked statistics on guild wars; the entire history of battles on the server, who is scoring the most kill points, et cetera.

This would go a long way in encouraging guild rivalries and providing some sort of incentive beyond mindless PvP. It creates pride and prestige that can be publicly displayed, and gives people something to strive for and progress in. It's a simple to provide feature that adds much more longevity to the game.

GvG: Friend Stalking

One common practice in GvG right now is to find out who is in an enemy guild, add them to your friends list, then stalk them around the world to try and kill them for points. It's kind of a silly system, but it's very effective for those looking to kill other players. The problem is that it makes the friends list system detrimental to use, which is counter-intuitive to a social game genre. Essentially, all that needs to be done is either remove locations on your friends in the friends list, or add a confirmation system that requires both parties to agree to a friend request.

GvG: Guild Quitting

There seems to be a fair amount of people who will quit their guild when they are able to die against an opposing guild. The mechanisms for quitting a guild should essentially force you to be out of combat for a certain period of time before you can quit, similar to the way a party works.

GvG: Guild Master Swapping

Just like the issue with guild quitting, guild master swapping provides the same safe guard against too many lost points with little effort. Just like the above issue, it should be solved with a timer that requires you to be out of combat before you can swap guild masters.

Conclusion

All of these issues are fairly public right now, and I am not trying to claim supreme knowledge or discovery over them. All I have seen is a lack of a comprehensive listing of these issues, and I simply wanted to present all of them in one location for the PvP community to rally around in hopes of driving some sort of change from En Masse Entertainment.

Whether you agree or not, any sort of discussion revolving around the PvP systems in the game could result in some positive changes for everyone. To me, this is about adding longevity to the game for the sake of maintaining an active PvP community. Any feedback is welcomed and appreciated.
Edited by: Notturno about 1 year ago - Reason: grammar fixes
Lamira Profile Options #2

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Not enough shakeweightin'
waterloo Profile Options #3

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Nice write up!
DreamAgain Profile Options #4

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Agreed with everything you said. Gate hopping is a terrible game mechanic that needs to be reworked.


Can I add in how bad channels are? Let's break down Channels and the affects it has on OWPVP:
Increases chances of hiding from war tag by 400% or more
Removes any sort of competition over territory
Turns high level channels in barren wastelands. Go through a high level zone and you barely see anybody, much less a war tag
Spreads out population by 400%
Regizer Profile Options #5

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or you know... don't fight near safe areas...
DreamAgain Profile Options #6

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Regizer on 05/14/2012, 02:59 AM - view
or you know... don't fight near safe areas...


Safe zones are ****ing everywhere.
Small camps/quest areas
Instance loading areas
Towns..


The fact is, almost every place for people to be hanging out is a safe zone.. it's hard to avoid it.


It's actually not the fact that safe zones exist are what bothers me.. it's how easily you can abuse them. As an Archer I can charge up my strongest skill, pop out and shoot somebody and pop right back in to a safe zone.. that's RETARDED.

What do safe zones accomplish?
They allow players to have a safety net. I'm going to attempt to kill you and if I feel like I might die I can retreat to it.
They allow players to abuse it by constantly hopping in and out of the zone while healing/charging up their most powerful skills

The fact that people actually argue this irritates me to no end. It's a TERRIBLE game mechanic. Argh!

I'm perfectly fine with every safe zone staying the way it is, as long as it serves their purpose. Their purpose is to protect people while picking up quests/sitting next to a campfire/buying stuff from a merchant or whatever. Their purpose is NOT to give PvPers a safety net.

Anybody who argues this needs to take a step back and think about this from a logical point of view. Just stating "hurp durp dont go near safe zones then" is really ridiculous.
Rotsam Profile Options #7

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Great summary! The charge up/interrupt issue is worthy of a hotfix imo. I also like your solve for safe-zone camping -- a lot of these issues are taken care of by instituting combat-based timers for PvP.
muscarine Profile Options #8

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Bumping the clear-sightedeness o/
ShadowDra Profile Options #9

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So much text
Anonymouse Profile Options #10

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Notturno on 05/13/2012, 07:22 PM - view

General: Town Hugging

Right now a lot of open world PvP, particularly Guild versus Guild battles, are centered around hugging safe zones. What happens is that people will peek out of a safe zone to try and do damage, then pop back into the safe zone a fraction of a second later to avoid retaliation.

What needs to happen is an active combatant debuff; whenever you deal damage to another player or suffer damage from another player, you should receive the debuff. This debuff should keep you PvP flagged, meaning you can also be attacked in safe zones, until you suffer no damage or deal no damage for the five second period. Town hugging right now creates an experience that is not conducive to encouraging active fighting, but tapping each other and talking trash. This debuff would provide a solution to the much rued town hugging issue, and result in more PvP participation as a whole.



GvG: Guild Master Point Acquisition

Another issue surrounding guild master status is that there is no incentive to participate in GvG as a guild master. Risking your life results in a ten point loss, while scoring a kill gives you the same standard single point. The risk versus reward is one of the core reasons for the above issue of people swapping guild master status to an alt; you gain nothing for risking everything. If a guild master scores a kill in a GvG battle, they should gain more than the standard single point; whether this means two points or five, anything more than one would make the risk worth taking in many situations.



GvG: Level Restrictions on Point Acquisition

Another big issue surrounding GvG right now is the preying on low level players and alt characters. Regardless of the level discrepancy, there is no penalty for killing low level players in a GvG, nor is there any point difference. This creates a multi-faceted problem that is both not enjoyable for players, as well as being detrimental to the overall health of TERA. Let me explain...

* By making low level players vulnerable, you are forcing alt characters and new players to remain outside of active, warring guilds.
* Discouraging new and alt characters from joining guilds makes the guilds appear less active, and discourages socialization amongst players.
* New players never get to experience a guild community. Having that social connection with a guild obviously encourages subscriber retention, which is vital to the health and survival of TERA.

Due to the way level scaling operates in this game, no amount of skill can overcome certain level gaps between players. There should be a maximum level discrepancy between GvG combatants before points are counted towards the war; anyone with a gap larger than five levels should not generate any points towards a war.

This encourages guilds to actively seek out new players to join their ranks, as well as encourages people to house their alts in their guild. At the same time, it also gives low level players the opportunity to participate and contribute to a war, without being a major liability to the guild as easy prey for high levels.


General: Town Hugging

For town Hugging I think the time should be a little higher, anywhere from 10-15 seconds up to 30 because if you are ranged and the person you are attacking is melee it's gonna be a lot easier to hop back in for 5 seconds.

GvG: Guild Master Point Acquisition

I like what you put about the Guild master getting more points as well. It encourages guild masters to be other than a Lancer(really hard to kill). They may want to be a sorcerer instead if they get more points for killing blows cause sorcs hit really hard. A majority of guilds I've seen have had lancers as Guild Masters so hopefully something like this will happen and it will change the game up a little bit.

GvG: Level Restrictions on Point Acquisition

As far as level restriction for gvg I think rather than level restriction they should change up the point system. If you kill someone a certain amount lower you get 1 point and keep it goin like that up to someone equal level maybe 5points someone higher level 6-10 points depending. Just a thought. Because what if a guildy is getting harassed or camped by someone 4 levels higher, then you cant really do anything to help them because you're way higher so that causes a rift between higher levels and lower levels.