I gotta say, while I don't share your particular playstyle (I prefer to hunt down the PK'ers, particularly those harassing lower level players and/or guild-mates; I'm "that other guy" :-), your post was a joy to read.
It echoes so much of what I've missed in open PvP MMOs since my solid stint of playing L2. The player-driven politics, negotations, alliances, fractured alliances, backstabbing, all of it. I miss seeing a small 2 on 2 skirmish that could have been done and over with in minutes instead escalate into an hours-long PvP fest between warring clans. I miss seeing half a server get sick of one or two powerhouse alliances controlling everything, agreeing to drop their wars, even if only temporarily, so they could band together and beat the ever-loving crap out of the powerhouse clans. I miss seeing clan mates head out to deal with gankers screwing with one of our own, as both a display of clan solidarity (that we had each other's backs), and to send a clear message to the gankers: "don't f--k with our members".
Awesome reply. I'm glad you are on the other side of the spectrum. It's players like you and me that keep the cycle of true pvp going. People think that just because I am supporting the PK aspect of the game that I don't necessarily support players that go after us. It's nice to see a "red killer" in there supporting that open world, self sustained pvp environment. I respect your reply. See you in game hopefully under a better system. :)
Thanks! And likewise.
Best part is, in that kind of community, if it's built up and supported well by the players, the PK/Anti-PK portion is just a small part.
I think what really sums up the spirit of that, though, is how - at least in most cases - no matter how bitter a battle is between two rival clans/alliances, they'll almost always end it with a "GF" (good fight), and not in a sarcastic or condescending way. There's that spirit of good sportsmanship behind it.
There will be the bitter tears and words flung around by some, but that just makes it all the more colorful. The post-siege forum PvP in Lineage 2 was often as entertaining as the Sieges themselves.
Well I can say for sure we'll both be on a PvP server so, perhaps we'll cross paths and/or swords one day.
I gotta say, while I don't share your particular playstyle (I prefer to hunt down the PK'ers, particularly those harassing lower level players and/or guild-mates; I'm "that other guy" :-), your post was a joy to read.
It echoes so much of what I've missed in open PvP MMOs since my solid stint of playing L2. The player-driven politics, negotations, alliances, fractured alliances, backstabbing, all of it. I miss seeing a small 2 on 2 skirmish that could have been done and over with in minutes instead escalate into an hours-long PvP fest between warring clans. I miss seeing half a server get sick of one or two powerhouse alliances controlling everything, agreeing to drop their wars, even if only temporarily, so they could band together and beat the ever-loving crap out of the powerhouse clans. I miss seeing clan mates head out to deal with gankers screwing with one of our own, as both a display of clan solidarity (that we had each other's backs), and to send a clear message to the gankers: "don't f--k with our members".
Awesome reply. I'm glad you are on the other side of the spectrum. It's players like you and me that keep the cycle of true pvp going. People think that just because I am supporting the PK aspect of the game that I don't necessarily support players that go after us. It's nice to see a "red killer" in there supporting that open world, self sustained pvp environment. I respect your reply. See you in game hopefully under a better system. :)
^^ This is why I love to fight! In-game, I am going to try every dirty trick in the book to get you upset to make a mistake so I can kill you. But here, on the forums, I respect my enemy and if not for you playing the good role, I would not exist.
It's REALLY good to see some players understand the two sides of the coin and welcome the fight. Cheers to having an awesome player community on the next best PvP server since Darktide!
Pots are fine........they are very expensive, or time consuming if you farm/craft them. Personally i dont mind to lose, and I dont bother use them, cuz they r too costy, rather save the money/time for enchanting. Will use them at least after I got +12 for my weapon and body armor
I gotta say, while I don't share your particular playstyle (I prefer to hunt down the PK'ers, particularly those harassing lower level players and/or guild-mates; I'm "that other guy" :-), your post was a joy to read.
It echoes so much of what I've missed in open PvP MMOs since my solid stint of playing L2. The player-driven politics, negotations, alliances, fractured alliances, backstabbing, all of it. I miss seeing a small 2 on 2 skirmish that could have been done and over with in minutes instead escalate into an hours-long PvP fest between warring clans. I miss seeing half a server get sick of one or two powerhouse alliances controlling everything, agreeing to drop their wars, even if only temporarily, so they could band together and beat the ever-loving crap out of the powerhouse clans. I miss seeing clan mates head out to deal with gankers screwing with one of our own, as both a display of clan solidarity (that we had each other's backs), and to send a clear message to the gankers: "don't f--k with our members".
There's simply nothing like the experience of being part of all that in a virtual environment.
With the popularity of arena-style, matched PvP where the only thing at stake is how many badges you get to buy new gear with, there's a whole generation of MMO players who have no idea PvP can be *that* epic. They won't have to wonder why folks like us regard arena style, instanced PvP with such disdain, because they'll get to experience why first-hand. I don't say that to put them down. I never knew player-driven gameplay could be so amazing 'til I experienced it myself. So I've been on both sides of the fence myself. I would love to see more people get to experience it.
I'm really hoping TERA will the game to show them how true FFA PvP and player-driven politics can really work, and how epic it can be. It's people like yourself, and others in these threads, pushing for that kind of gameplay that really give me hope that we might just see it happen.
Also, the idea of the players policing themselves is so important. It really can not be overstated and, unfortunately, is not stated enough. I have many times tried to explain to people how in 4 years of playing Lineage 2, I was ganked or griefed fewer times than I have been inside of one week on a PvP WoW server. They can't seem to understand how that can be true many times. If it's a FFA PvP game with very few restrictions, then what's to stop people from ganking/griefing nonstop? I'd tell them, "the fear of messing with the wrong person whom in turn brings the wrath of their entire clan or alliance down on you; of having a bulls-eye painted on your back everywhere you go. There is no "faction-friendly territory" to retreat to the safety of.
One random, poorly chosen gank could lead to a world of hurt for the ganker, and that tended to make most think twice and choose their fights more carefully.
I had hopes for Darkfall perhaps going that way, but people in that game just couldn't get past stroking their own egos, impressing themselves over how hardcore they were for playing DF, long enough to ever let it evolve that way. So instead, DF's population pretty much cannibalized itself.
I'm hoping TERA goes the _other_ way instead. It's an encouraging sign seeing posts like your own and others' in these forums, describing and calling for it to happen.
Here's hoping!
while I'm always hopefull for that scenario you mentioned from every thread on here I read it looks more like the DF scenario in the works -_-
Some good points but if you are an outlaw why would law enforcement aka guards allow you in a city? Last time I checked APD wouldnt allow mass murderers to go unchecked. I know I have said this in another thread but it looks like I need to repeat myself. PvP is about the skill it takes to kill another player. 5 v 1 takes no skill and is therefore not PvP. If you think you are that much of a bad [filtered] go X vs X players with the same skill/Lvl. Only badies think they are good when a fight is one sided. This game has potential and I would hate for it to fail because a select few have little d**ks and want to be virtual tough guys to compensate. You want to be an outlaw, than that means you have no safe places to rest your heads. GL in game if you are on my server I look forward to teaching ya how to Dougie.
I think what really sums up the spirit of that, though, is how - at least in most cases - no matter how bitter a battle is between two rival clans/alliances, they'll almost always end it with a "GF" (good fight), and not in a sarcastic or condescending way. There's that spirit of good sportsmanship behind it.
I would wonder what manner of good illicit substances were being consumed when this was 'seen'. I've played many a game, and not -once- have I seen a single, solitary fight end with a respectful 'good fight' that wasn't a simple duel. I have, however, watched myriads of servers die from the acidic tone of the trash talking, machismo bull**** that gets spewed across its forums, its chat, and so on.
I hope I'm wrong and that this great (mythical) golden age of yore returns. I really do.
I don't think I've ever seen a red stay and fight once the odds are even. Either they forcelog or gatehop.
Most of the time, I've seen them gatehop, run or forcelog when they're preying on low level characters in the newbie areas. That's about all they can handle, and they have no interest in real PvP; just easy, cheap kills that they can gloat over. The moment a real challenge shows up, they're gone. If they get killed, they whine like their favorite stuffed toy was just disemboweled in front of them.
At the higher levels, I've seen them tend to stick around and, at least in a number of cases, try to stir up some more interesting PvP by ticking off someone's guild/clan members. In those cases, they will hang around and fight. Again, usually. Not always.
There are griefers at the higher levels as well who will only ever go after much weaker players and run from anyone close to their own level (level 70s haunting level 40 areas, and such). But, just like the newbie griefers, they always run or force-log as soon as real competition shows up. They still whine and complain when they're dropped. The behavior never changes. Cowards are cowards no matter what level they are.