Jail System - Ideas for bringing it back

Psychopathy Profile Options #181

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jkkennedy on 03/20/2012, 02:26 PM - view
What is sad is to many people come in here and hear the word "Jail" and take no time to read any little thing. They start huffing and puffing like they know what they are talking about and trying to defend themselves without ever reading the opponents arguments.

I will put it in obvious words for all the newcomers and past people who have never bothered to read...

WE DO NOT WANT A JAIL SYSTEM THAT KEEPS YOU FROM PLAYING THE GAME.

We want to provide a system that is fun for all sides. Most of you have never played a game with an actual jail system, and to be honest, for the most part you have no room to talk if you have never done so or you have never taken the time to theory craft. Most of you are out here throwing around BS responses without thinking and identifying the truth.

The jail system can work...if people would stop moaning about it and stop a moment to work out the flaws of it, instead you just whine and complain.

Also...if it only goes on a RP-PvP Hardcore server or whatever, I am fine with that. Give a rule set for those who want an unique experience. The rest of the crowd can go play their casual generic open world PvP that has failed in almost every other game that has the exact system that exists now....


Is any of this actually OWPvP? No....but you did prevent an OWPvPer from OWPvPing and masked the act up with stuff like "Gladiator Arena (aka arena or open arena or w/e you want to call it, same spot, no variety except for opponents, gets old pretty fast). Breaking out? Smuggling weapons? This sounds like a single player game that follows a storyline. Do I have to keep doing that over and over?

People react like this because you said BRINGING BACK the jail system, which implied you want the Ktera jail system which is basically, you can't play for this long b/c you pissed off someone with a majority on his side.

So again, not a good idea... anything you come up with still equates to the fact that you are in jail and any PvP or content of the jail system won't be OWPvP thus discouraging OWPvP in general. If you make it any appealing at all, then it won't really be jail it will just be a Colosseum which people will have to ask the Venerach to let them enjoy by getting them jailed.

Theory crafty enough for you?
Stabbie Profile Options #182

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Stabbie Lvl.60
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The Jail System is something that maybe belongs on an RP Server. Or more to the point, this is something that clearly does not belong on an open PvP server.

The suggestion is:
If you really want to see this happen, maybe you should move this discussion to the RP forum and ask them for a RP-PvP Server? As it stands, you're trying to force a square peg through a round hole.

Even the supporters of this idea can't give any intelligent input on how to stop abuse.

It will be abused.

Consequently, it will hinder PvP.

This is a bad idea for open PvP servers. Period.
Edited by: Stabbie about 1 year ago
Psychopathy Profile Options #183

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jkkennedy on 03/20/2012, 07:54 PM
I have thought of something that debunks the whole...large group comes and kills and all reports...

Player can only be reported once every 10 minutes. That sort of nullifies that and if they make every attempt to chase after you repeatedly, then just be happy. You get your PvP and you have successfully aggravated a guild enough to make them want to spend the time to follow report you on sight, because they don't have to kill you on sight to punish you for being in any way better than them in PvP (even if that means you were higher level or got carried by gear).


Fixed it for you. Welcome to every mmo that has had a reporting function. Guilds do this often...humanity is dirty and cowardly like that we all want to win, even if it means fighting dirty, ask any zerg guild.

Maybe if you had said, bring back the jail system for the RP SERVER, then people wouldn't be arguing with you, but you cannot limit OWPvP in a PvP server, it's already scarce as it is in most games.
Vunak Profile Options #184

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Stabbie on 03/20/2012, 09:32 PM - view
The Jail System is something that maybe belongs on an RP Server. Or more to the point, this is something that clearly does not belong on an open PvP server.

The suggestion is:
If you really want to see this happen, maybe you should move this discussion to the RP forum and ask them for a RP-PvP Server? As it stands, you're trying to force a square peg through a round hole.

Even the supporters of this idea can't give any intelligent input on how to stop abuse.

It will be abused.

Consequently, it will hinder PvP.

This is a bad idea for open PvP servers. Period.


No system is flawless. The current PvP system in NA Tera can be abused... Any time can Outlaw run into a safe zone is abuse. Any time a player trains BAMs into a group of players is abuse.

You can grief the hell out of people with the current instance system. Complete an instance, invite a player without resetting the instance. Have said player enter instance oblivious to the reset needed and now that player is locked out for however long that instances lockout timer is. Abuse.

Thats why we have beta's; to test and get rid of bugs and things like this.

The ideas in this thread are indeed intelligent. They are bringing meaning to PvP aside from bragging or ganking. They are elevating the interaction between the player and community to new levels.

Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it unintelligent. So lets not reduce ourselves to name calling and insults again.... it was childish on everyone's account.

Your and Outlaw, criminal, bandit etc. If you don't want to put yourself at risk then don't hit the button that brands you as this. This is not a system that is new, or unheard of. It has been done successfully in games before.

Not to mention you have no idea how players will actually utilize the systems we are arguing for without testing them in a live environment. While I do having played games with jailing systems.

What we can do here is come up with the best possible solution that doesn't promote abusing the system and test it. If its abused a certain way, you tweak the system to get rid of that.
Edited by: Vunak about 1 year ago
Stabbie Profile Options #185

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Stabbie Lvl.60
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The problems you're listing about the current system all have simple fixes that have been discussed to death in other threads.

However, with this hypothetical Jail System... If you can't even think of an intelligent way to counter the abuses that I'm telling you will happen right now, what makes you think you can beat even further abuses that will pop up once it's in Beta?
Psychopathy Profile Options #186

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Well, I can't make a counter argument so I will just tell you what else to abuse.....Sounds great. I change my mind, you have convinced me, I DO want this....on an RP server which I won't be playing.
jkkennedy Profile Options #187

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Stabbie on 03/20/2012, 10:06 PM - view
The problems you're listing about the current system all have simple fixes that have been discussed to death in other threads.

However, with this hypothetical Jail System... If you can't even think of an intelligent way to counter the abuses that I'm telling you will happen right now, what makes you think you can beat even further abuses that will pop up once it's in Beta?


Except I have done that already. Psychopathy skipped over it and tried to be witty to add in his/her own little remark while he/she ignored the actual reason for the post. I am also unaware if you have even read it stabbie as you never commented on it. This was just on the previous page.

jkkennedy on 03/20/2012, 07:54 PM
I have thought of something that debunks the whole...large group comes and kills and all reports...

Player can only be reported once every 10 minutes or "x" amount of minutes. That sort of nullifies that.

Also...another idea to it all...limit the number of accusations a player can make in "x" amount of time. 1 an hour, or perhaps, "x" amount a week or day or something. Limit so the player has to be careful on h ow many accusation they make.

This makes sense anyway...what police station would believe someone who came in every hour or several times a day to report tons of different people.


This method would not be extremely hard to implement either, and would prevent majority of griefing. You can also add in the idea that you can only report the same person once a week or something.

EDIT: I am also fine with it being on RP-PvP server. Just we also theory craft for all the other servers in case it was designed for the liking of it as well.

EDIT2: All of the system is Open World PvP. The gladiator fight stuff was some small thing I made up on a whim.

EDIT3: I have also had other ideas to replace the accusation type system. This would be a bit more work for developers, but could be more interesting possibly.

If you attack a white person you get 5 criminal points, killing them earns you 50 criminal points (value can change to whatever just using for example). You get no criminal points for defending yourself if someone attacks you first. You also get no criminal points for killing a red.

Members of the guild running the city get two special abilities:

Subdue: Temporarily stuns a target for 10 seconds. Can only be used if target is below 30 or 20% health or something, and killing the target during this time is an instant 500 criminal points or whatever.

Scan: Player can scan the player to check criminal points. If player has 500 criminal points or more they can be arrested.

Additonal Note: To prevent stun griefing, perhaps can only use the stun once an hour or something or using it more than 3 times on sub 500 criminal point players gets it taken away from you for 24 hours.

This system also has abusable parts to it, but everything in the game has some sort of abusable system to it.
Edited by: jkkennedy about 1 year ago
Keyral Profile Options #188

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Kiros Lvl.60
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I'm not even going to read any of this and just say again this is a bad idea and you guys need to give up and play another game if you want to change the entire game in order to feel like you are happy with it.

The majority are happy playing the game they bought if you all have such amazing ideas quit your day job learn how to make games and make your own game. I'm tired of all you people saying ohhhh this sucks you should do it this way..... When you have no idea what you are talking about.

Rewarding players for being on a PVP server and PVPing is absolutely retarded

Sending players to jail for PVPing on a PVP server is absolutely retarded

Strict punishments for PVPIng on a PVP server is absolutely retarded.

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If you want rewards ----> join/make a guild that rewards players for killing killers or visa versa join/make a guild that rewards players for killing and ganking and griefing

if you want punishments be the community around you the kills and griefs the people killing and griefing...

It's all about the community and thats the way it should be.. not this lame bull[filtered] you minority are trying to get implemented
Roda Profile Options #189

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Roda Lvl.60
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I was going to comment on the posts before this but...
Keyral on 03/21/2012, 05:50 AM - view
I'm not even going to read any of this and just say again this is a bad idea and you guys need to give up and play another game if you want to change the entire game in order to feel like you are happy with it.


GIVE UP?!

You can't scrape together the mental capacity to even read the thread you're posting in, and you have the gall to say a system won't work just because you lack the ability to come up with a system that would work?

Get out.

You're looking at an equation and saying it's unsolvable without bothering to look at the variables.

Fun fact: Tera Online's political system was planned on having a jailing system. They took you "advice" and gave yup because too many people cried because they couldn't come up with how the system could be fun. A huge mistake in my opinion.

Keyral on 03/21/2012, 05:50 AM - view

The majority are happy playing the game they bought if you all have such amazing ideas quit your day job learn how to make games and make your own game. I'm tired of all you people saying ohhhh this sucks you should do it this way..... When you have no idea what you are talking about.

1. Yes, because people are in their happy comfort zone means that we shouldn't try to advance the genre AT ALL.
2.What do you think I'm in college for? I do this [filtered] for fun.
3. Take your own advice.

Keyral on 03/21/2012, 05:50 AM - view

Rewarding players for being on a PVP server and PVPing is absolutely retarded

Sending players to jail for PVPing on a PVP server is absolutely retarded

Strict punishments for PVPIng on a PVP server is absolutely retarded.

1. The reward should be the experience. I'm sick of games that give you an number and tell you to be happy because your number is bigger than that other guy's number.

2. That's why it is UP TO THE PLAYER, AND THE VANARCH TO DECIDE. Heaven forbid we have the political system have any meaning..

3. Don't confuse challenge with punish. I designed my system to not rely on people being butthurt over getting ganked, so it wouldn't deter PvP. If I designed my system for anything other than fun, it would be to promote intelligent social decisions.

Keyral on 03/21/2012, 05:50 AM - view

If you want rewards ----> join/make a guild that rewards players for killing killers or visa versa join/make a guild that rewards players for killing and ganking and griefing

if you want punishments be the community around you the kills and griefs the people killing and griefing...

It's all about the community and thats the way it should be.. not this lame bull[filtered] you minority are trying to get implemented


You kill a killer he just gets back up, you hunt him down he just respawns, you stalk him relentlessly, he can just respawn. I'm not saying that to point out the futility, I'm saying that to point out that IT'S A [filtered] PVP GRIND. Day in, day out, SAME DAMN SYSTEM. You see a person, you smash your face against them. Why? Just because. That is not fun. I want a reason to kill a person. I want an engaging PvP system that mixes things up. Your PvE equivalent would be a person who finds it perfectly fine to grind mobs day in and day out, and insists on taking out quests and nexuses because he can't conceive of a way to make them fun for players.

And "community"?? This old system promotes destroying a community. There's no sense of consequence when you piss someone off. Seeing your buddy being carted off causes EMOTION. If you care more about him than the Vanarch's authority you might be inclined to rebel and try and break him free, and if the Vanarch's sympathizers see you starting a rebellion, they will start their own force.


Please READ the thread, and the suggestions posted. You have no room to talk otherwise.


EDIT:
The way I'm reading all the nay-sayer's comments gets me thinking that they would probably love, and use the system the most.

They'd be the ones fighting off the police force.
They'd be the ones intercepting the carriage and banding with the criminal inside.
They'd be the ones getting a group to siege the jail, to free a prisoner from what they think is an unjust sentence.

Unless, of course, they exclusively like stale, 7 year old PvP systems.
Edited by: Roda about 1 year ago
Stabbie Profile Options #190

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Stabbie Lvl.60
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Roda on 03/21/2012, 08:33 AM - view
...Emotional babble about concepts that belong on a RP sever sprinkled with opinions rather than facts...

Fun Fact: Tera decided against a Jail system because it's a bad idea that can be, and will be, abused.

Your opinion is that this will somehow be fun anyway.

The scenarios you're describing belong on a RP-PvP server. Where players can engage in activites "causing emotion" with "Vanarch's sympathizers" who can "stage rebellions", "punish outlaws" and maybe even vanquish foes to win the hand of the fair maiden!

Most of the rest of us, find stuff like that overly-dramatic and silly. It's unnecessary and unwanted on an Open PvP server.

Your idea of fun is clearly different from other people's idea of fun. Welcome to life in a society. Enjoy your stay.

Reread the first sentence of this post. That's a fact.
Edited by: Stabbie about 1 year ago