Maybe I am missing something...

Nyco Profile Options #1

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One of the big reasons I looked forward to playing Tera was the owpvp system, which my heart has longed for since I left a 5 year stint of playing Lineage 2.

So in Tera, you flag red, and you kill people. You risk nothing in doing so, and you gain nothing. If the other party consents to pvp, they dont have to flag, they can just attack you. Which is fine, if the circumstances are correct. But I feel like there is a middle ground missing somewhere. The system itself seems incomplete and poorly thought out. If you decide to run around killing people all day there should be both risk and reward involved, and if you as the "victim" are capable of killing the outlaw there should be potential reward there as well. I hate to be the broken record, but as much of a grindfest as L2 was, the one thing it had perfect was its factionless, owpvp system. You had, as the red, the satisfaction of knowing you cost that person hard earned xp. As the person killing the red, you knew they were a potential loot pinata. And the middle ground of consentual flagged pvp with masses of hundreds upon hundreds of people in the open world was exhilirating.

Here its - oh look a red killed me, go back, look around for him, he isnt there, no loss - continue with previous activity. There is no anger, no reason to get back at them, there is nothing. As the red, oh look, i killed someone - they will respawn, spent 2 minutes running back, and i have gained no real satisfaction from doing this.

It is lacking, a lot, and while I realize it isnt feasible to have the direct owpvp system L2 had due to various restraints (bop gear, etc).. the current "system" seems to be more of an afterthought rather than a system at all.


I am a 31 year old mom of 2, i want to kill people and i want them to be damned pissed off that I did, and when i kill that [filtered] who has spent his day running around killing people to provide some reward to the person who finally drops his [filtered] to the ground. At the end of a day with a three year old and a one year old, i want some vicious, gut-wrenching, heart stopping in your face pvp.

Excuse grammar and spelling errors, this was written on my phone while waiting for a client to unlock their site for me to head inside :)

The1 Profile Options #2

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PVP shouldn't be a grind, pvp is for fun. Griefing isn't pvp, if you want that go play aion. Tera is first game in a long time that is sticking to the roots of what made mmo's good and I really hope they never fail as hard as others with instanced pvp or pvp reward items. It's what has killed good games out there, lets not do this to tera.

Your goal in gaming to to ruin peoples day? Just to anger them? Why play a game just go blog and piss people off if you get your satifaction on others frustrations good for you.

I'm a pvp centered player and I love teras system, but then again I enjoy the game and I have fun playing. I also have fun in life and I do not just try to spread my own hate over the net. More power to you, hope your kids grow up and want to make everyone they play with, NOT want to play with them. Good plan
Nyco Profile Options #3

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The1 on 04/22/2012, 10:22 AM - view
PVP shouldn't be a grind, pvp is for fun. Griefing isn't pvp, if you want that go play aion. Tera is first game in a long time that is sticking to the roots of what made mmo's good and I really hope they never fail as hard as others with instanced pvp or pvp reward items. It's what has killed good games out there, lets not do this to tera.

Your goal in gaming to to ruin peoples day? Just to anger them? Why play a game just go blog and piss people off if you get your satifaction on others frustrations good for you.

I'm a pvp centered player and I love teras system, but then again I enjoy the game and I have fun playing. I also have fun in life and I do not just try to spread my own hate over the net. More power to you, hope your kids grow up and want to make everyone they play with, NOT want to play with them. Good plan


I don't think you get what I was trying to say, let me explain the L2 pvp system to you.

there were PK's (people who you killed unconsentually) and Karma ("infamy" that you gained from killing said people) and Kills (Consentual kills)

If you attacked someone, who was not pvp flagged, you became pvp flagged (purple).
If they attacked you back, they became pvp flagged, whoever won, won, after 1 minute your name would return to white, if they died they would lose a % of their exp for that level - 4% to start with, it was later lowered to 1% in about the 6th expansion.

If you attacked someone, and killed them, your name turned red. They still lost the exp. The only way for your name to become unred was to work off your karma through either 1) dying or 2) killing mobs. You also accumulated 1 PK point, the more PK points you had, the more karma you got per kill. So if you had 100 PK's, and killed someone, it would take you 4-5 deaths, or about 3 hours to work off that karma to turn white again.

Eventually the game introduced sin eaters, which allowed you to worn down your PK count through gaining a temporary demon pet, and leveling it, turning it in, and it would remove between 1-9 PK's from your total count.

If you died in consentual PVP, you lost xp. If you died WHILE RED in pvp, you dropped items.. armor, weapon, stuff in inventory, it was random. The more karma you had built up, the higher chance you had to drop stuff.

So you as the person PKing people had the satisfaction of knowing you cost them hard earned xp (and in L2 it WAS hard earned), but you couldn't go into town with karma, because the guards would attack you, there were no channels you could hide in. You either had to die it off with the help of friends, or work it off in a secluded area and hope no one found you.

If you were lucky enough to come across someone who was red, and you killed them while they were red, there was a VERY good chance they would drop items for you.

SO, as you can see - there was a lot of risk in going red, with reward as well, and a lot of reward for whomever was able to kill the red.

I have no idea where the hell you obtained that I want full grief PVP and I just want to run around killing people all day. I want a PvP system, that has good risk, good reward, and gets your heart pumping whether you're killing, or being killed.

And thanks for the comment about my kids. Hopefully they do grow up like me, and not some whiny self-proclaimed hardcore PvP expert carebear who is unable to read and comprehend the entire point of a post.
Stormakov Profile Options #4

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While I agree the PvP needs something, the outlaw system to me is horribly flawed.

I come from a background of 8 years playing DAoC, and more specifically the Mordred server (FFA PvP). In DAoC there were realm ranks - every time you killed a player you would get a small amount of xp and realm points (rp) and the victim would drop a small amount of coin for you to pick up, this provided a meaningful PvP experience that would allow you to not only level up in PvP but you started to climb a ladder system for ranking. Upon achieving a certain Realm Rank (RR) you would get enough points to spend on Realm Abilities (RAs) which could give you small boosts towards your PvP prowess.

Gear was -barely- a factor in DAoC, there were templates which you could build but once you had one, there was really no other reason to PvE past that except for enjoyment or tweaking your template.

Honestly this was THE best MMO PvP i've ever played (and I've played 'em all, Nexus TK, UO, EQ, AC, etc) I would really like to see something similar to this added in - and if not.... no harm no foul, I'll just take my time to GW2 I suppose, apparently they're implementing a similar system.

P.S.: Nyco, I'm with you - and props to being a PvP mom, I knew one in DaoC called Mistwraith and she was awesome. Thex does sound just like a carebear PvP'r.
Edited by: Stormakov about 1 year ago - Reason: sp
Zoet Profile Options #5

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Nyco on 04/22/2012, 10:49 AM - view
The1 on 04/22/2012, 10:22 AM
PVP shouldn't be a grind, pvp is for fun. Griefing isn't pvp, if you want that go play aion. Tera is first game in a long time that is sticking to the roots of what made mmo's good and I really hope they never fail as hard as others with instanced pvp or pvp reward items. It's what has killed good games out there, lets not do this to tera.

Your goal in gaming to to ruin peoples day? Just to anger them? Why play a game just go blog and piss people off if you get your satifaction on others frustrations good for you.

I'm a pvp centered player and I love teras system, but then again I enjoy the game and I have fun playing. I also have fun in life and I do not just try to spread my own hate over the net. More power to you, hope your kids grow up and want to make everyone they play with, NOT want to play with them. Good plan


I don't think you get what I was trying to say, let me explain the L2 pvp system to you.

there were PK's (people who you killed unconsentually) and Karma ("infamy" that you gained from killing said people) and Kills (Consentual kills)

If you attacked someone, who was not pvp flagged, you became pvp flagged (purple).
If they attacked you back, they became pvp flagged, whoever won, won, after 1 minute your name would return to white, if they died they would lose a % of their exp for that level - 4% to start with, it was later lowered to 1% in about the 6th expansion.

If you attacked someone, and killed them, your name turned red. They still lost the exp. The only way for your name to become unred was to work off your karma through either 1) dying or 2) killing mobs. You also accumulated 1 PK point, the more PK points you had, the more karma you got per kill. So if you had 100 PK's, and killed someone, it would take you 4-5 deaths, or about 3 hours to work off that karma to turn white again.

Eventually the game introduced sin eaters, which allowed you to worn down your PK count through gaining a temporary demon pet, and leveling it, turning it in, and it would remove between 1-9 PK's from your total count.

If you died in consentual PVP, you lost xp. If you died WHILE RED in pvp, you dropped items.. armor, weapon, stuff in inventory, it was random. The more karma you had built up, the higher chance you had to drop stuff.

So you as the person PKing people had the satisfaction of knowing you cost them hard earned xp (and in L2 it WAS hard earned), but you couldn't go into town with karma, because the guards would attack you, there were no channels you could hide in. You either had to die it off with the help of friends, or work it off in a secluded area and hope no one found you.

If you were lucky enough to come across someone who was red, and you killed them while they were red, there was a VERY good chance they would drop items for you.

SO, as you can see - there was a lot of risk in going red, with reward as well, and a lot of reward for whomever was able to kill the red.

I have no idea where the hell you obtained that I want full grief PVP and I just want to run around killing people all day. I want a PvP system, that has good risk, good reward, and gets your heart pumping whether you're killing, or being killed.

And thanks for the comment about my kids. Hopefully they do grow up like me, and not some whiny self-proclaimed hardcore PvP expert carebear who is unable to read and comprehend the entire point of a post.

this. I loved the L2 pvp system
Suzumebachi Profile Options #6

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Lineage2 had the best pvp system.period.
Cogbyrn Profile Options #7

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Did they ever say Tera's OWPvP was going to be similar to L2's? If not, why did you spend all that time looking forward to something that you had no information about? Wishful thinking? That isn't EME's fault.

And yes, I think the current OWPvP system actually IS an afterthought. They thought about the PvE first because it was initially developed for a Korean audience, then afterwards, they thought about how to get OWPvP into the game for the NA audience.

I think people remember the handful of enjoyable OWPvP instances they've had in the past and conveniently forget the countless hours spent trying to find a fight that's entertaining.

Also, Stormakov, I'd be careful with your GW2 expectations. Odds are it won't meet them and you'll be disappointed. WvWvW PvP seems more like a 2-week large-scale Battleground, even though people keep convincing themselves it's meaningful OWPvP.
Nyco Profile Options #8

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@Cogbyrn - Lineage 2 was also designed for a Korean Audience, Tera was designed by the team of ex-Lineage 3 developers. I'm not sure what server you were on, we had plenty of OWPvP on Gustin, considering my clan was at war with 90% of the server. I'm sorry all you have to remember is a handful, what I remember could fill a book.
RedThumb Profile Options #9

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GW2 Great PVP system
Spykers Profile Options #10

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There is loss here form what I understand -- either crystal breakage or loss is possible...same as PvE.

As a long time L2 player, I can appreciate what you're saying OP, I really can. But let's be fair about how L2 losses might apply to this game >>

#1 Item loss. in L2 there was CHANCE to drop an item. It was a fairly low chance, certainly not a WIN WIN every time you PVP'ed, not even MOST of the time. It was rare. And even if something did drop of a person, you weren't always the person to get the item. In L2 it was a big deal because better items were of great cost/effort to make. TERA has none of that, although high end drops may be an exception, I don't know. Even so, items in TERA are so prevelant (take at look at enchanting and upgrading items, its based off having a sh*tload of other pcs of gear), even a top notch item would not likely be a huge deal. It just would not matter that much, not as compared to L2.

#2 Exp loss. Are you kidding me? Did you even play TERA? The exp scale on this game is nowhere NEAR the grind of L2 (at least the way it used to be before F2P). Take away 5%, hell even 10% exp, no big deal. These types of penalties don't even make sense and would be little more than an annoyance.

L2 penalties applied to TERA would be artificial at best. Still, my objective response must end here.

You, OP, are being completely pious if you don't think people are going to get upset about being killed, or stealing their BAMs, or whatever it is you/your guild have planned. This is GvG, and territories will be worked over by guilds. I think the penalties and the current system will be enough to cause alot of tension and build rivalries. And if not, you're just going to have to put a little more effort into it as a player, aren't you?