Even though I disagree with being rewarded for pvping, I do acknowledge some "need" those rewards and it does add to something to "work" towards in game and gives people something to do, here's my idea for a reward system that everyone would possibly like and/or enjoy. Feel free to drop comments as suggestions of tweeks for the system idea. Maybe EME will start looking at it and see that the largest part (the pvp part) of the community has some request.

Thinking the over all system could be just special (and guaranteed) money drops just to be used for pvp rewards. Though you they may have to set a system up so people dont try to exploit this in owpvp or bg's, probably killing the same guy 10 times in a 24 hour period would mean he's not worth anything to you after that 10th time (those 10 kills would count group/guild area wide, for those members of your guild or group that were in the area, since they'd all be getting a share of the rewards. For the duration of the match or a 24 peroid within that area). Would also encourage pvpers to mix it up on the places they go to pvp.

1. Rewards for OWpvp would diminish for every group member, every guild member, you had in the area. You would not get rewards (or diminishing rewards until you simply got nothing from the level difference) for anyone you killed that was more than 2 levels below you, you would in turn not gain larger rewards for killing anyone who was over your level to simply defeat the idea of people trying to exploit it to gain more money per kill. (Feel like 2 level difference is the mark probably 3 depending on how skilled you are and the other person isn't). Becoming an outlaw would give you a small bonus to this reward system(10%?), to encourage people to flag up.


2. GvG, the winning guild is rewarded a chunk of pvp money to all of those who took part (the losing would get some but more compared to a reward that you would have gotten if you just spent your time BGing the past 24 hours). Your K/D would indicate how much extra you got at the end or how much healing you did but all those who participated would be rewarded a hefty sum. Normal kill rules would still apply to make sure guilds wouldn't team up to exploit this on letting the other side slaughter them to get even more, however the big chunks of money would be had in improving your K/D and healing over the time period to get bonus's and simply getting rewards for either winning or losing would be a large sum as well. Would probably be best to cap out the rewards at some point just to make sure allied guilds aren't exploiting to get all the best gear in a day. Though it would still be one of the most effective ways.

3. Death matches you could gamble pvp money along with other money and items but not earn it... since its there purely for competition but would still be there for those who want to gamble their pvp money and could still earn it that way technically. Normal kill rules would apply for the entire match, they'd still get money for those kills as well.

4. BG's.... reward doing any objective with the same amount of pvp money for getting 1 kill tho the winning team would recieve a slightly larger sum above the losing team, reward kills and healing and such at the end of the match, its more for those who want competition so i think it should have a little bit less reward than your 24hr gvg or OWpvp, even if you spent 24 hours doing BG's you should come out with less pvp money than you would have just doing GvG or spending that time fighting in open world. Though you would still get rewarded! Just have it be something meant to be for those who solo more and dont have a guild and may be a little afraid to flag up or be in the open world or want more group focused goal oriented combat. And reward those who take chances out there and want to mix it up... Sitting in a town Qing up should not be more effective than being an active player but it shouldn't be out right not rewarded at all. Normal kill rules apply of course... however only per BG, consider maybe having a lower cap for the max amount you can earn in these, to make sure people dont try to farm them.

*I copy pasted this from another post of mine and put in some extra thoughts, thanks for reading.*

I do not want PvP to be turned into "grinding players for loot." When such a system exists, it opens the door for kill trading, and ganking lowbies (or the lowest possible level which still yields rewards. In your case, 2 levels lower than yourself.)

First, when the system grants rewards for killing another player, without taking anything away from either party, the opportunity will always be there to "farm" each other for mutual gain. This leads to kill trading. I kill you, collect a token. You respawn, kill me, collect a token. And so on. I'll never support a system of PvP rewards (at least in open world PvP) where no one stands to lose anything. We'll just end up with another Ilum. No thanks.

Second, this doesn't actually encourage players to take on others their own level. Level 60's are encouraged to kill level 58's and 59's. Not only will those players be artificially scaled down against the level 60 due to nothing more than their level, but the level 60 might also have end-game gear, which is not obtainable by players who are not level 60. There needs to be a system where you gain proportionally less rewards for killing players of an increasingly lower level, or the system will encourage the killing of the lowest level player possible.

Third, IMO Battlegrounds should never reward the individual. Ever. The only way to ensure teammates play to win is if you live or die as a team. The player who topped the damage or healing charts is rarely the most effective player in a match. These are the players who run around spamming useless AoE causing insignificant damage, which adds up over the course of the match. These are the players which stand around killing each other instead of helping to capture or defend objectives. There are other players who stand guard over a single objective all game, just standing there doing "nothing" (but fulfilling an important role of guarding that objective) who would be rewarded less than the selfish players who run around killing random enemies without contributing to the team win. Your BG reward system is flawed, making the same mistakes as other MMOs in that it rewards selfishness.

Your GvG system contains a lot of loopholes as well. The losers are rewarded, for starters. That opens up guilds to trade wins with each other. Furthermore, anyone who "participated" in the war gets rewarded individually. What constitutes participation? 1 kill? One tick of damage? How many alts could I log on with, "participate" with, then log them out and wait for my rewards to roll in?

I don't want open-world PvP to turn into a grind, which seems to be exactly what your system would do. Players and guilds farming each other for mutual benefit.

-Travail.

Quote: Travail on 04/15/2012, 01:30 PM - view

Seems like from your post you do not want any type of PvP rewards at all in this game, you'd rather have the raiders dominate a server. Sounds super fair!!!

I'm tired of seeing this sentence. "We want BG's for competitive balanced PvP." BG's are not balanced. They are actually unbalanced in nature. Any game that has classes in it, you can never call balanced in any form of PvP or PvE. Classes do not perform on equal terms in every situation, or mesh together in composition equally.

BG's are more about team composition and gear then it is about player skill. Sure skill is a factor (more so in TERA), but team composition has a huge effect and we already know the gear disparities TERA has.

BG's are equalized in that the teams are even when it is a matter of numbers. But stop with the balanced PvP bull[filtered]. There's too many factors to call any form of PvP balanced.


As for this thread. I can't stand BG's, they are not needed, been proven by UO and games like it. That said I understand that players like BG's and want them in game. But rewarding BG's is wrong. BG's are to accessible to reward. Rewarding OW PvP is wrong, its to scarce and to randomized. Rewarding GvG is wrong, its to easily exploitable (zerg guilds waging war on there own guilds etc.).

To keep in PvP gear and rewards, without killing either form of PvP is through the SvS system being implemented later on. Until SvS is implemented keep the rewards exclusive to the Rifts/Nexus'.

Why SvS? BG's at there core is a selfish style of PvP. It doesn't benefit anyone but the person participating (K/D, Healing Done, Damage Recieved etc.). OW PvP is also an extremely selfish form of PvP. Your going out and killing other players that might not be in the mood for PvP. Its enjoyment is self received only.

SvS on the other hand may be selfish in intent. In the long run that selfish nature is benefiting not only the individual player, but the server population as a whole.

Quote: WiLdLeGLoL on 04/15/2012, 01:58 PM - view

Not at all. Quite the opposite, actually. I think that the system EME has right now is doomed to fail if they don't offer some type of reward system.

The problem is that EME is providing too many PvP servers. Or rather, players demand too many PvP servers. Too many players think they want a FFA PvP rules set, when in reality they don't like the consequences rolling on that type of server brings with it. If there was only one PvP server, and that server was only for players who truly had an open-world, FFA, PvP mindset, there would be no "need" for rewards (I'd still like to see them even then, but it would be a much more hardcore rules set than what I want to see on the current TERA PvP servers.)

Battlegrounds and the LFD tool will be in TERA. Cross-server queuing looks to be in as well. There has to be an artificial incentive added to encourage participation in open world PvP, or it simply won't happen, with players instead choosing to participate in instanced content. However, that doesn't mean the devs should implement a system of "all reward/no risk," which is what the OP is proposing.

If you ever visited the planet of Ilum in SW:ToR, you'd know that creating a system of all reward/no risk in the open world simply doesn't work. It leads to players simply trading kills with others until they have enough tokens or money to go obtain whatever item they are working towards. Players must stand to lose something when they die, be that items, money, or an intangible like points in a ranking system. You cannot place only rewards into open-world PvP and expect any result other than what happened in SW:ToR. The loser of an encounter certainly shouldn't gain "hefty" rewards just for participation. That's a recipe for disaster.

-Travail.

Im looking for suggestion guys, not complaints. No offense. Your tired of a sentance sure. I just blindly stated that BG's are for those who basically dont want to do open world most of the time, some people look at them competitively, some dont, thats just an opinion but I do agree with you all on the simple fact.

Every game is a grind. If you read the post, you'd know I suggest systems to be placed (a kill amount capped on that person for the day) and BG's, GvG would be based on kills and healing, also read over my suggestions before blindly stating improvements. You'd get rewarded if you sucked but the amount would not be as significant for those with great K/D's 100/0 so to encourage people not to just alt hop in guild to get "their reward" you get one kill, you get two heals off, you wouldnt gain alot. Also those rewards would be capped too so they wouldnt continue to do it to exploit either and encourage playing more than one character perhaps? (another reason you would pay more money to continue to play the game in EME's eyes. so a plus for them to like that)

Im not sure if i did forget to put this in however, but idealistically you would get LESS money for killing players under you, and only 2 levels (yes there is artificial scaling, I tried to be forgiving of 2 levels with it.) and the number of times you can kill one guy before he's worth absolutely nothing could be tweeked, but again i dont know how populated this game will be.



Guys, they have BG's coming, they will be in the game, Not alot of us want them or maybe just some of us dont want them? I dont know but they are coming... and the system for them has not been announced. Pvp gear and rewards will be coming, we cant really fight that. I was a long time UO player myself, pvp is its own reward but I do VERY much understand people who dont like pve grinding to get their gear. They shouldnt be forced to do a part of the game they dont enjoy, just to be able to have the things they need to enjoy it. (IE:gear). It also gives people something to pay for, and to work towards (aside from gathering their own skills) and ALSO something to blame when they die. Im trying to suggest a system that would encourage pvp in the open world (tho it COULD be exploited, whose to stop random passer bys from ganking those people who are trying to exploit the system? And really? 10 kills for that one guy? lol also you can declare multiple wars at the same time, so if allied guilds are trying to do this, they may be in for a rude awakening having people sneaking up on them and declaring war and such.

Suggestions would be: "Tweek the amount of kills per player." "Change this aspect of how you get rewarded from GvG to *blank*" Thanks.

You can only fix but so much to protect from exploiting, b/c it can be done in ANY system, it can also be PUNISHED and you can be banned for it. So please try to keep that in mind as well. Thanks again for the feed back thus far guys, just try to keep things clean and well thought out suggestions.


If we cant then we'll probably just get stuck with a suck WoW like system.

Would you suggest a penalty of some sort then? You get a debuff on the amount of money you gain or do you straight want to just take things from players like the money? Essentially treating it as if it was trade able, back and forth?

With no penalties I can see it being a slight issue, tho you can simply have LESS money they get for killing the same guy over and over? until he's flat out worth nothing in those 10 kills (or less)

Most people dont want to be punished for trying to play a game and enjoy it. I used to camp people outside of towns in UO, it was fun... lol loved stealing peoples gear and stuff but its also a very small market game design. With an all rewards system, it opens it up... however the down side is, like you said, its more exploitable.

So the trick would be to find something thats as least exploitable or find a punishment enough for players to not WANT to exploit it but also... not drive them from the game entirely.

Maybe say the people who are hoarding the pvp money on them, lose (set amount) when they die, on top of the normal stuff they give when getting killed? Would be no bank for pvp money, just had to go into town. "What about groups ganking?" Well they'd get a significant LESS amount of money, and you might lose some of yours the first 10 kills... but I guess you'd still be losing money there? Though you could switch channels or sit at the camp fire, log off.... tho again you run into the issue, if your players are "playing" the game by choosing to log off, your doing something wrong or they are on the wrong server. (And I think alof of those people are) its all fake money after all and its all just for fun I suppose. Losing a set amount could be added though, 10% loss on money each death? so if you have alot then you lose alot. After that 10th time (or less) of dying you wouldnt drop money for said person? or perhaps every death they'd have a stacking debuff on they money dropped or gained back in 30 mins... then that discourages pvp tho, so scratch that last one.

How's that sound?

Rewards on OWPvP are fine, all my support for this.

http://tera-forums.enmasse.com/forums/player-vs-player/topics/Rewarding-PvP-In-The-Open-World

I'd recently posted something of my own. It goes into much more depth and detail and covers a lot of ground you didn't. Comparatively, my suggestion is much less kill tradable than this one here. I won't go into details, because that's what the link is for.

Of course, when you get right down to it, Vunak makes a good point in that SvS should be the only real way to get PvP loot, but given that EME seems hell bent on PvP gear and the like with BGs, the least they can do is make it a sensible system that doesn't kill open world.