Elin changes data

Phaere Profile Options #141

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Phaere Lvl.60
Mount Tyrannas (PVP)
Elin Lancer
EME censoring the armor without consulting anyone is just a theory but so is Focus Groups complaining about them. As for the video someone linked I would rather not do a search through all these locked threads. But I'm quite sure it was one of the developer interview videos.

And anime fans were the first to jump on these game when the Elin were announced. Also anime fans are some of the most against censorship people you can find. You should of seen the war that went on over Dance in the Vampire Bund, the dubbing company wanted to censor it (similar to Elin issue) but due to fan complaints it was left completely uncensored in the US market.

EDIT: someone found the video on previous page while i was searching.
Edited by: Phaere about 1 year ago
Destian Profile Options #142

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Neonie on 03/19/2012, 02:46 PM - view
My interest in this whole thing is NOT the armor changes, it's the way they handle problems.


You say that, but you seem oblivious to the fact that they've taken in TONS of player feedback on many other key issues and made changes accordingly.

Also, if your preorder is cancelled, why are you still here?
Tonbbery Profile Options #143

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Destian on 03/19/2012, 02:39 PM - view
Shift21 on 03/19/2012, 02:32 PM
You are wrong here. Its not most, its all.

No one would have said anything at all if no changes were made.

did ANYONE complain before any changes were hinted?


Shift, don't say things you cannot back up with even a SHRED of proof, please. It's baseless statements like this that have kept EME from attempting to engage the elin fanbase: they're not going to argue with a group of people who are willing to make things up.

Also, EME didn't make the decision to censor elins without internal focus group testing (not the FGT players, ACTUAL people they invite into meeting rooms and ask them questions). They WOULDN'T make that decision without consulting focus groups and those groups MUST have said that they didn't like the uncensored elin armors.

This is how companies make decisions, mainly because it places the blame on people NOT in the company (ie the focus testers) so no one will get fired for making the decision without being informed.


So what you are saying is that none of this is EME's fault, but the fault of a bad batch of focus testers? I'm not buying it. If a company bases something affecting 20,000 of the opinion of 100 people then that's just a poor business strategy (numbers for example purpose only). And i agree that if nothing was changed, at all no one would have really given a damn. Though a few would have raised an eye brown life would have moved on.

As for proof it's not that hard, watch the news, read a paper. It happens nearly every day, if something is the way it is, no one care's or notice's it. However the second it's changed it is automatically front page news, and opinions of people who never saw it before come to life.
Brabbit Profile Options #144

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Destian on 03/19/2012, 02:44 PM - view
Brabbit on 03/19/2012, 02:40 PM
I found it ... and it's actually true XD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TLjJlEG8To&feature=related

At 6:00 btw


I can't read or understand German...

And I think whoever said they were doing it for feminists was wrong. Feminists have ALREADY been up in arms about the female armors in the game.

Are you sure they didn't censor the female armors in the EU market and that's what they're talking about?


The video has closed captioning in enlgish >.> .. click CC and select english.
Edited by: Brabbit about 1 year ago
Lambent Profile Options #145

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Brabbit on 03/19/2012, 02:40 PM - view
Destian on 03/19/2012, 02:35 PM
Phaere on 03/19/2012, 02:27 PM
According to one video some one linked in one of the threads the censorship was done for the most crazy of religious people, and feminists.. So targeting people that most likely will never buy the game? Right.

Most real gamers would never of given a damn if they were left uncensored.


Can you find this video?

EME didn't do it for feminists or they'd have censored 90% of the female armor as well.

They MIGHT have done it so the game didn't draw unwanted criticism from the media for sexualizing what the NA market would perceive as children, but I REALLY think they did it because the general NA market didn't like the uncensored elin in focus groups.


I found it ... and it's actually true XD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TLjJlEG8To&feature=related

At 6:00 btw


just like to add that it's line 8. you don't need to speak german, nor have studied linguistics to understand it. these are people who will not be playing the game. they're just activists who want to stick their noses in everything and tell people what to do.

just remember who started this problem in the first place. then you can blame them for our behavior. if it was the other way around, we'd likely be trolling the soon-to-be locked pro-censor threads.

i'd just like to note how EME has not locked this thread. big-ups to them.
Edited by: Lambent about 1 year ago
Destian Profile Options #146

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Shift21 on 03/19/2012, 02:44 PM - view
Where is your proof?

DId you see any of these focus groups? Your assumptions are much more far fetched then mine.

In fact, I can supply proof, we can easily for back in the forums and see if we can find even 1 post complaining about it. While your "Proof" cannot be proven.


The proof is in simple deductive logic.

If EME censored the elins, we know this:

-If it was the decision of a single individual at EME, that person has just volunteered to take ALL of the blame for every bit of backlash and would have to answer to senior management.

Rule #1 in corporate America: DON'T TAKE THE BLAME OR IT WILL GET YOU FIRED!!!!

How do you avoid taking blame? You let things like focus groups make decisions for you.

Read Scott Adams' "Dilbert and the Way of the Weasel" to get a better idea about how any structured corporate organization like EME works. You don't make a decision like censoring something without ironclad accounts from a focus group that said they didn't like it.

The odds of getting fired for making a crucial decision are very high.

The odds of getting fired for going along with what focus testing results yielded are dramatically lower.
Shift21 Profile Options #147

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Destian on 03/19/2012, 02:51 PM - view
Neonie on 03/19/2012, 02:46 PM
My interest in this whole thing is NOT the armor changes, it's the way they handle problems.


You say that, but you seem oblivious to the fact that they've taken in TONS of player feedback on many other key issues and made changes accordingly.

Also, if your preorder is cancelled, why are you still here?


Because I am waiting to see if anything changes. If it does, I will play. If it doesnt I will not re-order. If your questioning wether I actually canceled or not here:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/194/preorderxv.png
Edited by: Shift21 about 1 year ago
Lambent Profile Options #148

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^ destians recent post is a strong arguement. not iron-clad, but convincing. there is a major hole in it, and that is the lack of proof.

what i don't get is why EME has not allowed a "original version" toggle to crush this entire problem.
Edited by: Lambent about 1 year ago
Neonie Profile Options #149

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Destian on 03/19/2012, 02:51 PM - view
Neonie on 03/19/2012, 02:46 PM
My interest in this whole thing is NOT the armor changes, it's the way they handle problems.


You say that, but you seem oblivious to the fact that they've taken in TONS of player feedback on many other key issues and made changes accordingly.

Also, if your preorder is cancelled, why are you still here?


Because I am incredibly interested in Public Image and company outlook. The way PR is handled, the way a company communicates with it's fanbase, and the way each side of this respond to each other.

Destian Profile Options #150

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Tonbbery on 03/19/2012, 02:51 PM - view
So what you are saying is that none of this is EME's fault, but the fault of a bad batch of focus testers? I'm not buying it. If a company bases something affecting 20,000 of the opinion of 100 people then that's just a poor business strategy (numbers for example purpose only).


A company would love to ask 20,000 people their opinions and get feedback that way, but it's basically impossible to do.

1. Internet polls have proven to be heavily skewed and inaccurate. Internet polls are typically only answered by people who have already formed an opinion on the subject.

2. Focus groups are composed of people who don't know the product, have no opinions about it but are in the target market segment for the product.

So they do focus group testing because it has proven to work in the past and it's the best way to gauge how initial reactions to the product would be.

I'm 100% positive this had to happen. EME would NOT have made this change (one they knew would be unpopular with a certain segment) unless they had ironclad evidence that it would be even MORE unpopular with another segment.