When does something count as an issue?

Yokura Profile Options #91

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Just read through the entire topic. And I have to say, the forum color of text is terrible on my eyes. Jesus christ. I hope it's just my monitor, cause the white and fairly condensed text is making my world kind of like jelly. I wish all the text was in the nice blue color the quoted text are in... @_@ Guh, black on dark dark dark almost black is bad on the eyes.

So far, I've gathered that En Masse has stated that the censored armors are officially in for the official launch. I don't know or remember why En Masse decided to censor the armors. Something about feminist groups...? Someone want to point me to articles or announcements on this? *shrug* Personally I think if we have fully grown women who aren't clothed in more than strips of metal for armor, I can't see why we can't have swimsuit bottoms for children. I don't really see either skimpy women or children except at the beach. This change in NA kind of reminds me of: http://wii.ign.com/articles/119/1193309p1.html

There seems to be a lot of Elin debate and discussion on the armors, and it seems that it has given the Elin players in general a negative rep. Kind of like how "all muslims are terrorists". I feel bad for the players who just want to play in peace. Although it was probably most definitely unintentional, the negative rep is going to affect bystanders. sadface Imagine getting criticized for picking one of the 7 races that the game offers. EME really should have been more firm on what they were going to do. And explain their reasons for doing so. Because I really can't figure out a solid reason or announcement. @_@ WHY is there such a huge firestorm over the Elin armors? Does this usually happen when America decides to censor stuff? I can't remember a time when people raged this hard over some Yugioh card art censors. Did EME do such a bad job of being discrete about it that everyone and their mother and grandmother can tell it was an obvious attempt at censoring?

... Also. M rated game. I dunno bout you, but personally that should have been warning enough for anything up to and including porn and death to be acceptable. *scratches head* Ratings don't seem to make much sense to me anymore.. Orz

I've seen this picture pop up a few times too: http://i.imgur.com/Pq4vS.jpg
Would be pretty nifty if we got censorship armors that varied a little, cause they all kind of look like short-shorts... Hell, I think if allowed, players would jump at a chance to design armor for EME just due to the amount of talking that has been going on. Imagine if we got more badass-looking armors than the original. LOL Don't entirely get the fire about outfits anyways @_@; Characters in games and tv shows always get crazy ridiculous outfits anyways. Who the hell wears detached sleeves in real life?

Maybe I like my freedom too much. It'd be kind of cool to be able to design how your armor looks ingame OOO: The shorts clipping through armor is definitely an issue. Now bug/game issue and not just aesthetics issue. Otherwise, whatever EME does with censoring is probably going to be profit-driven in a business sense. Makes me feel bad for saying it, because I'm sure people at EME are people just like us and are good people. Otherwise they wouldn't be putting effort into localizing a game they have no interest in. I think peoples in the game industry generally like the work they do, I certainly love the games I have :3

I believe that everyone should be able to play what they want, have what they want to play. The ones playing Tera are certainly not the people who hate the game, so they must have something in the game that they love. It would be nice if everyone was just as happy with the game as the next person. I'm not going to call Elin players pedos, just as I'm not going to call Male Elf players [filtered], nor am I going to accuse female high elf/castanic/human players of being perverts. Yes, I am uncomfortable with how sexualized women in general are. Come on, three strips of clothing covering skin isn't REALLLY armor. But it's not real, it will never be real. *shrug* What right have I to judge others when they're not hurting anyone? should I really care what you think of fictional characters? Should you? You want well endowed boobs but don't want to go ogle at women on the streets? I don't give two [filtered]s about if you like staring at a fictional character. A fictional character is just that, fiction. Child-like nymphs wearing panties? Cool, go have your panties. I don't care. I'm going to go stare at my sexy hunk of man candy. I hope that you'd respect me enough not to downright accuse me of being lust-driven for labeling fictional characters "sexy man candy". So thus, I will give you the same respect and not give two ***** about you and your labeling of child-like characters cute. or hot or sexy or wahtever.

Fairly new to Tera and the community, please forgive me for my general level of nublet-ness.
Edited by: Yokura about 1 year ago
Armageddon Profile Options #92

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Sethala you do realize you are going in circles, right? If not I rest my case and call it quits. I have not been trolling you or w/e kids do on the internet now days. Is sad to see such stubbornness for something that Enmasse have talk about thousand times before. Even poor o'll BrotherMagneto got tired of modding those threads because they were more round and repetitive than a tier. Everything you keep saying has been a poor self defense for what everyone that gives a sort to speak a "D@m.n" on this forums has pretty much call it quits at this point. People are so fed up and bored with this that to give you a better idea on whats really going on here. If you look at the thread, 90 people have posted in the thread and 1194 have only view it. Why do you think is that? They are just browsing real quick to see what the foss is all about and once they realize is another "Insert Elin Complain Thread name here" they just leave. Enmasse did not took their decision out of thing air. You just don't want to admit it. The denial is huge here. As you have been ignoring the true facts I mention before and substituted them with your fictional reality. I have not even reply back to what you have answer for a simple reason. IS the same, same, same 1000 year old story. If you had been here when the whole thing went down you might have a clue on whats really going on or went down. Those 1104 people that have not reply are more than likely aware of what I have mention and the current situation. I'm more that sure that they know this and simply avoid this nonsense. If I'm reaching to you about this is to give you some light on reality. Delusion will take any person to madness and at this point this whole Elin conflict is just simple and pure madness at its best. I'm not here to show fingers and laugh at others suffering as it seems is the prefer scape goat to every-time a constructed criticism seems to be taken as a troll attempt. Is sad. When people like you simply are delusional about reality. I support Enmasse because I want to play the game and have fun. All this Elin talks ever do is just assert enmasse decision about the elin censorship. You and many others have done so. Sadly is so obvious for me and I'm sure enmasse that they don't even respond to this type of threads anymore. You know why? right? Case close. Have a nice week and embrace the sunshine.
Kitouski Profile Options #93

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Wisdom_Vanguard on 04/16/2012, 01:54 AM - view
Is sad to see such stubbornness for something that Enmasse have talk about thousand times before.

I've only seen a short politically correct paragraph posted by a GM once and pointed to by everyone. What a lot of us would like is a real response, not "kay guise, it's offical cause I said so." and, "read this post were the GM says kay guise it's offical cause I said so."

Wisdom_Vanguard on 04/16/2012, 01:54 AM - view
People are so fed up and bored with this that to give you a better idea on whats really going on here.

Then don't reply, like them v

Wisdom_Vanguard on 04/16/2012, 01:54 AM - view
If you look at the thread, 90 people have posted in the thread and 1194 have only view it. Why do you think is that?

Well, about 20 of those was me alone re-clicking into this thread to see what's going on. Wonder how many other views is the same case.

Wisdom_Vanguard on 04/16/2012, 01:54 AM - view
Enmasse did not took their decision out of thing air.

Then like I first stated, an actual response would be nice. I think even he has seen the "Hay guise it's offical." but that doesn't do anything justice.

Wisdom_Vanguard on 04/16/2012, 01:54 AM - view
I support Enmasse because I want to play the game and have fun. All this Elin talks ever do is just assert enmasse decision about the elin censorship.

Protest schemes that don't cost the participants any inconvenience, hardship or money remain the most popular, despite their ineffectiveness. I sure hope it doesn't assert ENs decision, the only reason I'm here now with a copy of the game on preorder is to support Bluehole for a great game. By the time beta is over I get to decide if a poor localization team is enough of a reason to have to apologize to Bluehole and take my buisness elsewhere. There are plenty of other MMOs coming out this season, and a long list of shows I still want to watch. If it asserts their decision, they're losing one persons money over it and counting. Like you said, you were around when it went down, plenty of people left over this change.

Wisdom_Vanguard on 04/16/2012, 01:54 AM - view
You know why? right? Case close.

When I was new here and first really noticed the Elin thing was all over the forums and then some, I made an intro thread and a couple replies in those topics. There was no offical say about Elins, no offical thread about it, no statement anywhere someone like me could see. Actually, right now I couldn't tell you were to find that GMs statement. All I know is it leaves a pretty poor impression on me when being new and not understanding the situation, my post count goes from 3 to 1 with no lock, no explanation, and not even understanding how big of a back and forth issue this is until weeks later. My time I spent sitting down and typing out a long winded post like this was deleted and I didn't know why. That was an incredible put off to me.

If the company is going to make silly choices, they should at least try to back them with reasons that aren't equally silly.
Edited by: Kitouski about 1 year ago
Yokura Profile Options #94

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Kitouski on 04/16/2012, 02:30 AM - view

When I was new here and first really noticed the Elin thing was all over the forums and then some, I made an intro thread and a couple replies in those topics. There was no offical say about Elins, no offical thread about it, no statement anywhere someone like me could see. Actually, right now I couldn't tell you were to find that GMs statement. All I know is it leaves a pretty poor impression on me when being new and not understanding the situation, my post count goes from 3 to 1 with no lock, no explanation, and not even understanding how big of a back and forth issue this is until weeks later. If the company is going to make silly choices, they should at least try to back them with reasons that aren't equally silly.


This. I'm new and I can't tell you how confuzzled I am about where the claims are coming from @_@ I've seen several people state that Elins were official, but I can't seem to find it...? And that Elins weren't in the first few betas. And a bunch of other random information I can't tell right from wrong.

It's a terrible first impression, and it feels like it consists of two factions arguing over why red/blue is the best color. Welll, it's not literally quite like that, but I hope you get the idea. It's a tad confusing why it's being argued all over the forums and even ingame. The first area chat I seen when playing the last closed beta test (My first and only closed beta test, I started late), had people discussing Elin and the censorship armor.

Is it official? Is it not? Why did NA decide to censor random things?

Those are questions that I cannot find official answers to.
Sethala Profile Options #95

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Wisdom_Vanguard on 04/16/2012, 01:54 AM - view
If you look at the thread, 90 people have posted in the thread and 1194 have only view it. Why do you think is that? They are just browsing real quick to see what the foss is all about and once they realize is another "Insert Elin Complain Thread name here" they just leave.


So rather than try and counter my points, you call my logic circular and post a big wall of your own circular logic text to try and refute it. Cute.

And this part I quoted? Take a look at the forums and note how many threads have close to 100 replies, and how many views those threads have. Most of them have around the same number of views once they get this big; 1200 views for only 90 posts isn't unusual, which means that whole point is moot.

Have a nice week and embrace the sunshine.

Ironically, it's currently snowing outside.
Destian Profile Options #96

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Yokura on 04/15/2012, 11:56 PM - view
Fairly new to Tera and the community, please forgive me for my general level of nublet-ness.


To make a long story short, EME and BHS (the Korean dev) decided that the elin (which BHS and EME have said are designed to look like little girls) would probably have mixed reactions in the US and EU and decided that it would be a good idea to censor some of their skimpier outfits.

They localized it for the market it was launching in. Simple as that.

A lot of Elin fans were fine with this but would like EME/BHS to fix some of the armor issues (clipping happens on all armors on all races, so I don't think that'll be fixed) such as the dye issues.

Unfortunately, some other crazy elin fans decided this was EME declaring a Jihad on them and everything they loved so they lashed out in any and every way they possibly could.

This has resulted in the crazy elin fans being to normal elin fans what skinheads are to white guys who just like to shave their heads: given them a horribly bad name and ruining the elin community to the point where EME couldn't even begin to engage them about their desires.

EME did respond about the armor changes in EVERY single question that was sent to their support: it was a business decision made to better suit the NA/EU audiences. That's all there is to it. If you send the question to their support right now, they'll tell you the same.

However, this is not the answer the crazy elin fans wanted to hear, so they're doing the only things they know how to do when they don't get their way: whine, complain and generally stir up as much crap as they can on the forums to express their angst.

Mind you, they're not doing even ONE single thing to actually work toward fixing the elin dyes, they just want EME to hear their crying because I suspect this is how they've grown used to influencing people in their lives.

This thread is an excellent example of that: it's a thinly-veiled attempt at trying to show EME that the censoring has "hurt them" and that they should be regretful of it, just like how an angry kid threatens to "run away" when their parents won't buy them a new toy in an attempt to hurt his parents for not giving him his way. It's an adult temper-tantrum.

Make a logical argument explaining why the elin were censored and the crazy elin fans call you a troll. Point out that EME has every right to censor its OWN product and that localization happens for Western games going into the eastern market as well and the crazy elin fans will counter by saying that censorship is evil and that localization doesn't exist. They'll also resort to fabricating numbers, such as making a poll on the race forum (the hotbed of crazy elin fan activity) about elin armor, and if 30% of that poll says that people don't like the changes, they'll claim that "30% of the entire Tera playerbase is unhappy with the changes!"

This is why EME won't even open discussions on the subject: you can't discuss things with people who are willing to lie, ignore logic whenever it suits them, pick up and put down causes on a whim (like how many crazy elin fans picked up the banner of "censorship is evil" but promptly put it down when they learned they could patch their textures) and generally act like squirrels high on crack.

Again, the NORMAL elin fans are the real victims in all of this, as they've struggled against the ever-growing stereotype that elin fans are Japanophile, lolicon perverts who are quick to anger and don't know the meaning of "logic" because all of the crazy elin fans perpetuate that stereotype.

So yeah, that's the problem as it stands and it doesn't look like it'll get any better, so long as the crazies are still around being crazy. :\
Edited by: Destian about 1 year ago
Roda Profile Options #97

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Roda Lvl.60
Celestial Hills - Roleplay (PVE)
Castanic Sorcerer
Destan,
Have I told you I love you, lately?
Vexia Profile Options #98

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Destian on 04/16/2012, 08:35 AM - view
Yokura on 04/15/2012, 11:56 PM
Fairly new to Tera and the community, please forgive me for my general level of nublet-ness.


To make a long story short, EME and BHS (the Korean dev) decided that the elin (which BHS and EME have said are designed to look like little girls) would probably have mixed reactions in the US and EU and decided that it would be a good idea to censor some of their skimpier outfits.

They localized it for the market it was launching in. Simple as that.

A lot of Elin fans were fine with this but would like EME/BHS to fix some of the armor issues (clipping happens on all armors on all races, so I don't think that'll be fixed) such as the dye issues.

Unfortunately, some other crazy elin fans decided this was EME declaring a Jihad on them and everything they loved so they lashed out in any and every way they possibly could.

This has resulted in the crazy elin fans being to normal elin fans what skinheads are to white guys who just like to shave their heads: given them a horribly bad name and ruining the elin community to the point where EME couldn't even begin to engage them about their desires.

EME did respond about the armor changes in EVERY single question that was sent to their support: it was a business decision made to better suit the NA/EU audiences. That's all there is to it. If you send the question to their support right now, they'll tell you the same.

However, this is not the answer the crazy elin fans wanted to hear, so they're doing the only things they know how to do when they don't get their way: whine, complain and generally stir up as much crap as they can on the forums to express their angst.

Mind you, they're not doing even ONE single thing to actually work toward fixing the elin dyes, they just want EME to hear their crying because I suspect this is how they've grown used to influencing people in their lives.

This thread is an excellent example of that: it's a thinly-veiled attempt at trying to show EME that the censoring has "hurt them" and that they should be regretful of it, just like how an angry kid threatens to "run away" when their parents won't buy them a new toy in an attempt to hurt his parents for not giving him his way. It's an adult temper-tantrum.

Make a logical argument explaining why the elin were censored and the crazy elin fans call you a troll. Point out that EME has every right to censor its OWN product and that localization happens for Western games going into the eastern market as well and the crazy elin fans will counter by saying that censorship is evil and that localization doesn't exist. They'll also resort to fabricating numbers, such as making a poll on the race forum (the hotbed of crazy elin fan activity) about elin armor, and if 30% of that poll says that people don't like the changes, they'll claim that "30% of the entire Tera playerbase is unhappy with the changes!"

This is why EME won't even open discussions on the subject: you can't discuss things with people who are willing to lie, ignore logic whenever it suits them, pick up and put down causes on a whim (like how many crazy elin fans picked up the banner of "censorship is evil" but promptly put it down when they learned they could patch their textures) and generally act like squirrels high on crack.

Again, the NORMAL elin fans are the real victims in all of this, as they've struggled against the ever-growing stereotype that elin fans are Japanophile, lolicon perverts who are quick to anger and don't know the meaning of "logic" because all of the crazy elin fans perpetuate that stereotype.

So yeah, that's the problem as it stands and it doesn't look like it'll get any better, so long as the crazies are still around being crazy. :\

Hello! Question for you: Do you try to make a highly defensive rebuttal every time someone elaborates on their unhappiness with a particular aspect of TERA, or are the Elin changes your forte with a particular specialization in focusing only on the arguments of the OP along with blanket statements all around. You do realize that MMORPGs are fluid in nature, and that sometimes a company that is creating/localizing an MMORPG makes a mistake which leads to player unhappiness. Such mistakes are fine as a healthy part of the learning process as long as that company can work to amend their error (In this case, we've suggested a toggle switch which would largely pacify two sides of the argument). You say that certain Elin fans take the censorship personally, but I feel like you take our dissatisfaction with En Masse's work on the censorship and their following silence and refusal to adapt to their audience in the slightest bit as a personal affront against yourself.
thedudeprt2 Profile Options #99

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Really another of these threads?

Because it was so needed right?
Destian Profile Options #100

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Vexia on 04/16/2012, 09:40 AM - view
Hello! Question for you: Do you try to make a highly defensive rebuttal every time someone elaborates on their unhappiness with a particular aspect of TERA, or are the Elin changes your forte with a particular specialization in focusing only on the arguments of the OP along with blanket statements all around.


I call 'em like I see 'em.

If people are complaining for something silly and pointless (such as the level cap for OBT, since it's a problem that will have gone away in a week's time), I'll point it out (also, insisting that someone cannot complain about your complaining is the very definition of irony).

If people are complaining for a legitimate reason, I'll bump that thread on principle, such as Tera having a lack of emotes or complaints that the elin armor dyes are inconsistent (dye the outfit blue, a part of it stays red. WTF?!).

If people are continuing to complain about something because they were given a final answer but they didn't like the answer, I'll point that out, too.

The censorship was done for reasons that were stated and REstated by EME literally hundreds of times in support replies and Knoxxer's eventual statement about the subject. The answer was given, but the crazies couldn't accept it so their response was "keep pushing until we get the answer we want".

This is what has ruined the lives of every sane elin fan who just wants the blasted armor dyes fixed so they don't look like clowns when they dye their armor. Because of the amount of noise from the crazies, the people with a reasonable request are being drowned out, and that sucks.