Slayer Wonderholme Weapon (Intense/Quick vs. Keen)

Peeeleeep Profile Options #1

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Windows.Explorer Lvl.60
Mount Tyrannas (PVP)
Popori Slayer
I'm kind of confused as to what kind of WH weapon should I use for both pvp/pve. Some say that the best is Keen, but it seems like Intense/Quick is better? I don't know, but for me, I don't see the advantage of additional crit crate the Keen weapon has since we, slayers, have already glyphs that can make us crit more often.

Any suggestions, opinions or information will be a great help.

Thank you!
Shouteha Profile Options #2

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Elhaym Lvl.60
Mount Tyrannas (PVP)
Castanic Slayer
Something I been debating for a while too in case I'm not crafting vm2 pve weapon.



Baseline Stats Difference
Intense------------------------------ Keen------------------------- Quick
6% monster behind---------------14 crit rate------------------6% monster behind
6.9% monster behind--------------0.30 crit dmg--------------4.5% Speed
That the main difference between them.

According to
http://tera-forums.enmasse.com/forums/general-discussion/topics/Keen-or-Intense
Intense does higher crit damage and higher white damage.

====================================================
Let look at our attack speed first.
Intense
4.5% Weapon, 4.5% glove, 6% neck, 4% set bonus = 19% (too slow for my taste)
4.5% x2 Weapon, 4.5% glove, 6% neck, 4% set bonus = 23.5%

Keen
4.5% Weapon, 4.5% glove, 6% neck, 4% set bonus = 19%
4.5% x2 Weapon, 4.5% glove, 6% neck, 4% set bonus = 23.5%

Quick
4.5% x2 Weapon, 4.5% glove, 6% neck, 4% set bonus = 23.5%
4.5% x3 Weapon, 4.5% glove, 6% neck, 4% set bonus = 28%

VM/Regent
8.5+9% Weapon, 6% neck = 23.5%
8.5+9% Weapon, 6% neck, 4%set bonus = 28% (or 28.5 if using mayhem) + 4 more for glove
====================================================
*Note* 4% Speed is about 0.2-0.3sec difference in animation.

The comparison.
Intense x1 Speed 19%
6% + 6.9% +9.3 + 6.9 + 6% = 25.8% dmg + 9.3% enrage + 0.30 crit dmg
**If roll enrage damage for the bottom instead of 6% monster, it would be totaling to 19.8% dmg and 18.6% enrage = 38.4% during enrage**
To make life easier, let just use normal and monster for the sustain damage.

Intense x2 Speed 23.5%
6% + 6.9% +9.3% + 6.9 = 19.8% dmg + 9.3% enrage + .30 crit dmg

Keen x1 speed 19%
9.3% + 6% + 6.9% = 12.9% dmg + 9.3% enrage + .60 crit dmg + 14crit rate

Keen x2 speed 23.5%
9.3% + 6.9% = 6.9% dmg + 9.3% enrage + .60 crit dmg + 14 crit rate

Quick x2 speed 23.5%
6% + 9.3% + 6.9% + 6% = 18.9% + 9.3% enrage + .30 crit dmg

Quick x3 speed 28%
6% + 9.3% + 6.9% = 12.9% + 9.3% enrage + .30 crit dmg
6% + 9.3% + 6.9% + 6% = 18.9% + 9.3% enrage
====================================================

Hopefully no calculation error or so. All have 9.3% enrage so can safely ignore that value.
Looking at those value, the one that I like are

Intense2 Speed 23.5%=== 19.8% dmg + 9.3% enrage + .30 crit dmg
Quick2 Speed 23.5%==== 18.9% dmg + 9.3% enrage + .30 crit dmg
Intense1 Speed 19.0%=== 25.8% dmg + 9.3% enrage + 0.30 crit dmg
Keen2 speed 23.5% ==== 6.9% dmg + 9.3% enrage + .60 crit dmg + 14 crit rate

I really prefer having 23.5% speed as a slayer.
From those listed,

Intense1 IMO definitely give the most damage but it attack slower.

Intense2 really look nice for me. A bit higher than Quick2 and give sustain damage. Weaker by 6% compared to Intense1

Keen2 have lower damage but .30 higher crit damage. Not exactly sure how much modifier it is but it looks iffy at the moment. Don't really care about that 14 crit rate due to our glyph.
====================================================

*Edit*
Haaa.... just did a speed test. Seems like they tweak the speed with last patch. My friend said he seems to have the same speed when he went from 23.5% to 19%.

I know for sure before the patch, I was testing it with Kelsaik Neck 3% and Bloodtouch 6%. It was a 0.2 sec difference for 3%.

Here my test using HT. There some human error and such.
Range
27.5% ~0.86 - 0.92 avg 0.90
23.5% ~0.88 - 1.04 avg 0.96
19.5% ~1.02 - 1.10 avg 1.04

Seeing how there only about 0.1 sec difference between 19.5% and 23.5%. I may have to reconsider between Intense1 or Intense2 for PvE.

Keen2 is probably more toward PvE+PvP scenario for those that want 1 weapon for both.


Pretty long but it's some information and my opinion on it.

Edited by: Shouteha 11 months ago
nastyduck Profile Options #3

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Thanks for your interesting post shouteha.

Only thing i didnt understand is your conclusion at the end.

Why you saying intense for PVE and Keen for both?

IF you rolling intense2 its almost same as using a quick2. If you got your quick +12 its not worth it to get a new intense weapon i guess.

But why do you think keen is better for PVP than both of them? Just because its all about the crits?
Could you explain ur opinion plz?

I got a quick2 weapon and only tested it in PVE yet. On QueenHM fight im doing about the same dmg as my VM1 when it was pve rolled... it was not much of an upgrade for.

Only thing though is probably that my weapon is 2% mw and not 3% which can do a little difference but I'm not really that impressed by that new WHHM gear.

If I had intense1 I would definetly say, its a worthy dmg upgrade that is significant.
Shouteha Profile Options #4

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Elhaym Lvl.60
Mount Tyrannas (PVP)
Castanic Slayer
I'm just saying that you can just use Keen for both scenario if you don't want to get 2 separate weapon or on a budget type of thing.

Keen2 for PvP because of crit damage mainly.
Quick2 can also be for PvP. Just that you lose out on 0.30 crit dmg. Other than that, they pretty much the same.

Getting Strikeforce (conjunct2) might be better for pvp focus or pve VM2.

A sorc did a test here with VM2 PvE, but difference probably would be better shown if he had crystal since it is all modifier-
http://tera-forums.enmasse.com/forums/player-vs-environment/topics/PVE-Weapon-test-Regent-x-VM1-x-VM2

For PvP, the current Weapon ranking probably is
Nightforge PvP > Nightforge PvE ≥ Strikeforce > WH PvE ≅ VM1 > Conjunct

I'm not exactly sure where Strikeforce would rank at the moment but it does have PvP stat and same base mod as WH so definitely better than WH PvE. Either it equal to VM1 or VM2 pve or in between.

In regard to your PvE quick2, seeing how the Nightforge PvE is only slightly upgrade from VM1 PvE and your quick2 is about same/slight better than VM1, you better off sticking to the same weapon and/or wait till Nightforge PvE. Won't be seeing too much of an upgrade =/.

For Min/Maxer, Intense1|2 would give more damage out of the 3 WH. I put 1 there since it's only ~0.10 sec delay now and might be worth it. 2 gives "smoother" combat flow.


Oh, might as well post it here. I did a test with VM armor vs WH PvE for damage taken.
VM (Double PvP, Reflect, Frontal, Knockdown)
1877 rear
1666 front
303 reflect

WH (Chest Stats= Reflect, +HP, Decrease Damage)
1878 rear
1762 front
126 reflect
+5000k HP (Will update value when I get home)

The WH extra HP might be worthwhile even though it take about 100 more dmg and reflect 2/3 less. Strikeforge armor/boot/glove test TBC this weekend or so. Maybe Nightforge PvP Boot/Chest test, doubt it.
Edited by: Shouteha 11 months ago
Peeeleeep Profile Options #5

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Windows.Explorer Lvl.60
Mount Tyrannas (PVP)
Popori Slayer
I just got my intense to +12 and what I rolled for 3,6,9 are .3 crit / 4.5% attack speed / 6% damage it is quite a big upgrade for me.

But I do miss my mayhem, mainly because I can attack faster on that one. But in my personal preference on the new weapons, I can live with the 1 attack speed modifier and the ones that are in 10,11,12.

On the other hand, for Keen weapon, I do agree that slayers do have glyphs that can help them boost the crit rate, but we also have to consider that (I think) they've modified the resist to critical too on gloves and boots( I am not sure) so maybe that critical rate really helps on pvp. It makes sense though because strikeforce has a critical rate in one of its default attributes.

I have yet to try out my intense on PvP so I will update you guys in one of these days.

@shouteha
hmm..interesting..I was going to make a strikforce chest, but since WH chest is almost the same as VM I might have to go with WH chest for now.
Edited by: Peeeleeep 11 months ago - Reason: answered shouteha's last post
Shouteha Profile Options #6

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Elhaym Lvl.60
Mount Tyrannas (PVP)
Castanic Slayer
Here the 3 Strikeforce Armor Pieces

Edited by: Shouteha 11 months ago
nastyduck Profile Options #7

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Thanks again shouteha for the vm1 + wh chest comparison.

Since im running low on gold atm and i also got a dreamswept vest perfect stats 3% already it was a pain to imagine to enchant the WH chest.

With your test you made my decision very clear - ill stick to my vm1 chest ^^

The upgrade from vm1 perfect stats to WH chest pvp is just to small and it appears me to be a waste of gold.


ANOTHER THING THOUGH: The strikeforce weapons.. i think they just have pvp dmg +10, critrate and attackspeed.

Do you think that 10pvp dmg on the base is better than the ~12% + attack from intense?

My feeling says that WH pve is about = strikeforce

But i cant tell since i dont know if 10pvp dmg > or = WH +6 attack vs monster and +6,9 attack from behind....
Shouteha Profile Options #8

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Elhaym Lvl.60
Mount Tyrannas (PVP)
Castanic Slayer
Compiling some stats test at the moment. A priest came and buff me...so... have to sit and wait now...

Here the Strikeforce Weapon.



Just posting all these pics for now. Going analyze it later. At glance though, it doesn't look all that impressive vs WH. 10 PvP damage is only about 5% damage increase. Meaning if I hit for 1300, it will bring me to 1365. I'm testing the PvP stat right now but that should be...correct..seriously..

Edited by: Shouteha 11 months ago
Shouteha Profile Options #9

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Elhaym Lvl.60
Mount Tyrannas (PVP)
Castanic Slayer
Ok.. where to start... most of the attack use is 1st Auto vs Priest who have -4% Front and KD. Since Priest never change equipment beside crystal, number presented should be accurate.
*Note* Stats for every class is different. Ex. Endurance for Priest vs Lancer


Weapon Stats That Work in PvP
----------------------------------------------------------------------Front------------Rear[%increase]
5.1% more damage attacking monster from behind. 1526[4.26%]-----2318[4.27%]

5.3% more damage on prone monster-------------------1199 to 1267 [5.36%]
4 pvp increase (VM and older weapon stats roll)

New Weapon Stats That Work in PvP-----Front----------------Rear [% increase]
------------------------------------------------HT---17718---------------19857
4.5% more damage against monster-------18470[4.07%]-------20160[3.65%]
0.24crit dmg---------------------------------------19678[9.96%]-------22054[9.96%]
crit rate (not exactly testable)

In addition. I know a few that said 10% more damage to Overpower glyph was unnecessary a while back. To me, 10% is 10% so I always used it for more damage. It a difference of about 3k on a crit. On low value, about 400 damage. Might be worth the glyph points for some and not for others.
--------------------------------------------Front-------------Rear
crit dmg .24---------------------------19678------------22954
crit dmg .24 +30% OP+HT---------25581------------28670-------23.07% Front/Rear
crit dmg .24 +40% OP+HT---------28139------------31537-------30.07% Front/Rear

Miscellaneous information
Infuse Charm 120 Stam - 29 mp every 4.9sec for 2533 Total mana pool which is 5.09%.
A lancer with 3.5k mana pool had infuse around 180-200 per 5 so roughly 5%.

5.4% reduce cooldown on weapon is about 1sec decreases. It decreases Alliance teleport by 1min 37sec :O
15% Nostrum reduce cooldown by roughly 2sec for HT.
**It all percent base. Can just calculate each CD. Just example comparison**

Testing PvP vs Power
I know it somewhere out there on the forum, but did my test regardless. It quite interesting result.

I was going type it, but it was too much. Just going paste some portion of the cleaner result.

For a 30PvP,11 Power Equipment.
(I used frostwright to test the stats roll and forgot after I got the data. Got interesting result. The newer stats was tested with WH weapon to confirm it work)


In this image, it seems like for characters with low power, you get more damage from 4 pvp crystal and 4 power or 6 pvp crystal and 2 power.


For a 40PvP, 20 Power VM/BR Equipment



This show that when you relatively gear with, there is a diminishing return on PvP stats so you are better off using 8 Powers for PvPing.


Again, power will do more damage against Decrease PvP crystal user.


As mentioned before, Endurance is really class specific. In this scenario against a priest, Indom is better at decreasing damage. For a lancer, the result may or may not be different.


Here to somewhat answer the question above about if Strikeforce 10 pvp is worth while and such.


This chart shows the percent increase in damage every 2 added interval.

For PvP Stats, it a continuous diminishing return the more you stack the PvP Stats.
For Power Stats, it fluctuate up and down as seen by the bolded number. (Realize I bolded a wrong number fluctuation for VM Rear.)

For low power character, the PvP crystal gives a higher damage % increase. However, we saw that a mix combination of crystal yield the highest damage.

For high power characters, power is better because it fluctuate back up and down unlike PvP crystal where it just decrease all the time.

It is in another chart that I'm lazy to make clean. Here is the % damage increase.
8 PvP increase is 3.47%
10 PvP damage is 4.32% (Strikeforce PvP value)
20 PvP damage is 8.279% (VM weapon with 20 PvP)

*Edit 2*
[Against full strikeforce players, PvP zyrk does 40 more damage than power. Nothing change with the usual PvP zyrk at the moment.]

For PvP, you will want to roll
Rear, Dmg vs Monster, Crit Dmg, Crit Rate, Prone.

Since those Stats work, Intense look very nice for PvP at the moment. Disregard my comment about Keen above for now. Even Quick with those stats roll probably better.

Crit dmg though had a ~10% damage increase (to be exact it 9.96%). Double crit damage would be 20% if there no diminishing return.

6 = dmg vs monster
6.9 = rear
[ ] = bottom stats roll

Intense2 ( x1 speed roll)
= 6 + 6.9 + [6.9 + .30 crit dmg] = 29.8
= 6 + 6.9 + [6.9 + 6 = 25.8]

Keen2
= .30 crit dmg + [6.9 + 0.30crit dmg] = 26.9% + crit rate

Quick1 (baseline speed)
= 6 +[.30 crit dmg + 6.9 + 6] = 28.9

Quick2 (27.5%)
= 6 + [.30 crit dmg + 6.9 + speed] = 22.9

Strikeforce
= 10 pvp (4.32%) + [.30 crit dmg + dunno what you can roll x2] = 14.32% + dunnowhatyoucanroll
Let assume you can roll
= 10 pvp (4.32%) + [.30 crit dmg + 6.9 + 6] = 27.32% + crit rate

So... Strikeforce is....crap?

A PvE VM1 is about 15%+9 power (with lower base dmg of course)

Current understanding is
Nightforge PvP > Nightforge PvE > WH PvE > Strikeforce ~ VM > Conjunct


I'm burnt lol. Been typing this since I woke up so 3 hours now. Also about 3 hours testing yesterday too haha.


Also, calculation are subjected to error and/or may not truly reflect the current game. Feel free to use info and give any comment.
Edited by: Shouteha 11 months ago
nastyduck Profile Options #10

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Wow i was kinda worn out from the DD weekend and didn't look up the forums.
Again thanks for your hard work analyzing the different gear sets.

As i expected Strikeforce 10pvp dmg really does not look too well to be the #1 choice for pvp.

I wonder if they will fix it in the future or not but atm we can all understand why people are grinding PVE mostly for PVP weapons :d