Advanced Warrior PvP?

ManicMatt Profile Options #1

1

After browsing the forums, youtube, pretty much everything for quite a while, I realized there is very little content available when it comes to really advanced PvP. I am a Tera EU player myself (because I get bad ping in NA) so I don't really know any known Warriors who really excel at that class. So I'd ask if anybody could kindly answer some questions;

I'm an above average player thinking of rerolling to Warrior (I currently play Sorcerer, before that I played Archer but got bored because it had too few skills for my taste) due to the guild's need for a tank. I received a link from a defensive stance warrior doing their block-cancel combos and realized that that type of gameplay never really made it to Europe (even before it was nerfed). For the longest time I thought D-stance Warriors only used AA + Block, hah.

Since I am really serious about playing the Warrior class, I need to know that it can be interesting, challenging and rewarding. As such I'd ask if anybody could tell me who you would consider the current best PvP Warrior in TERA (Youtube links would be greatly appreciated, I don't care if he's EU/NA/KR/JP). Also, if there is a specific theory crafting forum available with some really precise information for more advanced players, like what kinds of combos exist, what we can expect from the next patches, stuff where I could find D-stance combos that I never stumbled upon for example.

I'd greatly appreciate the help!

TLDR; I'm looking for some (very) advanced Warrior tips/tricks/game play videos/etc.
Mell0w Profile Options #2

2

2
Friendly
Five Lvl.60
Tempest Reach (PVE)
Popori Warrior
You should give Renai's warrior guide a look @ http://tera-forums.enmasse.com/forums/warrior/topics/Renais-Warrior-DPS-Guide-TERAtodaycom

I only have half the classes at 60, but I've at least given everything a shot and I ended up landing on warrior. It definitely is interesting, challenging, and rewarding. While doing PvE content as a DPS warrior isn't exactly the hardest thing on the planet (it mostly comes down to knowing how to get to 10 edge as quickly as possible, i.e. use the 50% cooldown elimination chance glyph for blade draw and know what skills to chain it off of once you have it SJG glyphed) I do find it pretty high up there in terms of tera. Tanking isn't that bad either, it's just a matter of knowing your high aggro skills (battle cry, torrent of blows, charging slash) and what generates the most resolve (torrent of blows, the 2nd hit of rising fury, combative strike, poison blade) though holding aggro against VMs can be a bit of a challenge. The real challenge comes when you realize that what you do in PvE absolutely will not work in PvP. The key to being a beast warrior in PvP is getting the vortex slash -> blade draw rotation (see Renai's guide), knockdown rotation, and staggers down, along with knowing when and how to use them. While I know I'm not the best PvP warrior, I can absolutely say from experience that the difference between a warrior that knows how to be OP and a warrior that just goes in thinking their PvE rotation will cut it is surprisingly vast. Like, getting 10-0 in Fraywind and realizing you're the only warrior on either team out of 5+ that went positive kind of vast.
RitaLokita Profile Options #3

2

0
Neutral
Fathia Lvl.60
Lake of Tears (PVP)
Elin Warrior
Theres two ways you can go about warrior pvp, and both are valid.

There is 1-combo-stunlock death YOLO mode, which is a skill for 3v3's. In short if your quick enough and don't lag you can get a good kill combo in on an opponent before they have a moment to react. Doesn't work on all classes but can make you look ahmazing. Its good for 3v3's because winning or loosing revolves around focusing on a single target with as many stunlocks as can be doled out. Just process of elimination.

Then there is mixup mode, which will win you almost every 1v1 duel. Even versus good Lancers. Mixup mode consists of understanding how to deal damage outside of stunlock and locking down the opponents major attacks with staggers. It is called mixup mode for a reason, you need to learn how to properly utilize your stuns. You dont need to always follow up backstab with cascade, sometimes it makes more sense to follow up cascade with a different stun. Mixup mode requires very good battle awareness. For example, hitting a lancer hard when his iron will has been chipped away by your attack or is gone(last 4 seconds, backstab, wait, cascade, destroy). Mixup mode can incorporate super combo as listed above, and it is encouraged to take advantage of everything you know and understand. While being hard to read(not using your stuns on their cool downs and waiting for the best time to tactically use them). If your easy to read your stuns will be dodged or avoided. Which is why players who only know how to super combo, while they do well in 3v3 situations once they expend their stuns their entire battle strategy goes to [filtered].

D-Stance is also a fun mix-up mode style. Your biggest advantage of D-Stance is being able to maintain in your face striking distance with your opponent(where in a-stance I am moving around a lot more). Being able to block gives you easy access to counter stun. In fact counter-stun is more useful than backstab in d-stance as you can use it more often if glyphed. I find that in 1v1 I can beat even great players taking minimal damage, sometimes no damage. To be successful in D-Stance you will learn how to anticipate very well. For example, you sort of just get a feeling for when another warriors going to pop all of their stuns. I have been in fights where I block 100% of their stuns.
Edited by: RitaLokita over 1 year ago
ManicMatt Profile Options #4

1

Hey again!

So I'd definitely be interested in the mixup mode. I hate stale fights with pre-set rotations, they're way too boring, I also hate only a few skills being used, which is why I stopped playing archers (they simply have too few skills). So between A-stance and D-stance, which one would you recommend? I have heard that D-stance got nerfed hard recently, does it still make sense to play it? How's the damage compared to A-stance? Also, does D-stance (even mixup) still rely on canceling skill animations?
fastrthnwind Profile Options #5

2

ManicMatt on 08/28/2013, 04:28 AM - view
Hey again!

So I'd definitely be interested in the mixup mode. I hate stale fights with pre-set rotations, they're way too boring, I also hate only a few skills being used, which is why I stopped playing archers (they simply have too few skills). So between A-stance and D-stance, which one would you recommend? I have heard that D-stance got nerfed hard recently, does it still make sense to play it? How's the damage compared to A-stance? Also, does D-stance (even mixup) still rely on canceling skill animations?


That mixup mode is also what will help you for a while against multiple opponents because of how many skills and i frames you have at your disposal. If you use the same combo that most warriors always uses, you will be easily predicted and die quickly.

You can still use D-stane to play, but it will make it a lot harder to really killmanyone considering the serious damage nerf it was just given. After that patch, most warriors just roll a-stance with that .1% increased pvp damage and increased crit rate and since their endurance is only dropped by 10, its not like they lose a lot of defense that will be very noticeable in battle.

If i took a d-stance warr to kill someone in 15-30 secs before, it will now take them 1 minute minimum to accomplish the same feat. Thats how hard it was nerfed. The damage cant even compare to a stance now that the critrate increased a lot in a-stance as well.
UnderAPancake Profile Options #6

1

Too many warriors focus on combos and not fundamentals.

If you can't do backstab => combative => cascade => pounce => rain => reaping => get hit => charging to close => staggering counter => roll => vortex => blade draw, the basics of basics, then you're either lagging, got desync'd, have too low framerate so your atk spd is like 33% down, [filtered] up charging in the wrong direction, or can't hit buttons in sequence properly. The first few problems, not much you can do, tera will always be an amazingly mind-blowing game that won't live up to its potential because you don't give unreal dev kits to ppl who can't handle it. If the last thing is your problem then I don't know what to tell you, maybe put the skills in order on your hotkey bar 2 or 3 or something and just faceroll when you want to do the combo. I say it's basic and you say it's boring, but you definitely still need to know it/how to do it properly.

With block cancel we used to be able to mitigate the potential lag on backstab => combative => block cancel => cascade to make it much much more reliable, but d-stance got a 15% dmg nerf and is pretty much [filtered] except maybe in Corsair's cause block vs siege weapons (though a-stance if you want a nice score), some duel match ups, and maybe OWPvP cause you're not gonna kill anyone anyways as war so might as well survive and be annoying. (I'm still mad about them nerfing d-stance wars. Stagger locking is dumb as [filtered] but should've made it so block doesn't cancel animation on combo attack and kept everything else the same. Maybe nerf block for pvp a bit for wars as well but keep block canceling cause hitting lots of buttons to make your moves faster is hella fun. Besides, having only 1 "tanky" pvp class is pretty dumb)

The combos every talks about stunlocking 100-0 (which only works if you never desync and just a FYI, that entire combo is 18 hits, to not desync once in 18 hits is more than praying for a miracle (though I acknowledge wars would be ridiculous in pvp if there was no desyncing, kinda weird how that works out)) and honestly you do them for like 5 minutes and you got it, nothing really to practice to be honest (just have a sparring buddy with 20% stun reduction earrings try to get out of your stuns and jump in different directions to practice).

The much more interesting part about warriors, in my opinion, is their fundamentals. Warriors are a fast paced class where damage is spread out over multiple hits which means managing desync is priority number 1. It's why you see many warriors don't do the combative between backstab and cascade, or do poison blade between bs and cas. Combative, when you're really close to someone, desyncs a ton (even when you aim it "correctly" off center from the guy you're murdering) and there's always the chance your latency is just a bit too high that you can't hit cascade before backstab stun ends. Taking 1 step back before using it helps a ton so you'll often see warriors do backstab => cascade => 1 step back => combative => rain etc. Poison blade doesn't desync nearly has much and is also slightly faster than combative so people who have decent lantency but not great choose that even though it's strictly inferior in damage, they don't get the healing/end. debuff, and cannot be slept (pretty big in small scale pvps) until the duration is over.

Alright, boring stuff out of the way (though you definitely need to know it), here's the stuff you actually need to work on. None of it is flashy or "advanced" which is why I call them fundamentals, but it's stuff that takes a lot of practice and while individually don't make you a god if you master everything it separates good wars from random war #90824. Honestly, I can sum up all of what's said below with "land your [filtered] skills". Every 3s player I've ever talked to, when I ask what type of warrior they hate playing against the most, answers ones that are fast, stick on your, and pressure you. To do all 3 of those things you need to land every hit you can. Anyways, here's some things listed in order of importance, kinda.

1. Hitting *both* hits of blade draw. The first hit of blade draw is 33% of the dmg; it's base power is already 25% lower than wallop (and doesn't kd), if you miss hit 1 of blade draw you might as well use rising fury or something cause you're not actually doing dmg. Practice panning your camera as your animation starts so that you always get the first hit. PvP isn't against raid bosses, stop pointing your camera forward and only forward, aim at where you think they're going to go. You don't have reset in pvp, you get 1 chance or you sit on the sidelines and wait to do dmg again.

2. Cascade of stuns. Everyone and their mother knows it hits in a cone in front of you, if it's laggy you can get some ridiculous cascades that are 7m long, but the biggest thing is learning when to save it. In a 1v1 it's obvious when to use it. In a 3v3 there are the wars that just blow their whole chain on someone, healer cleanses, then they run around like a headless chicken for 20 seconds waiting for backstab to come off cooldown. Your lancer gigas and you're not there to cascade then you lose the game. Similarly there are wars that run around and never cascade in 3s ever cause they want to wait for the perfect 3 man cascade or combo it with their team mate's stun. Know when it's better to back stab => combative => reaping then chase bc => sycthe for a kd combo instead of a stun combo.

3. Learn to save backstab. Warriors that instantly backstab as soon as they see a target don't last too long. In 3s it splits you up from your team (out of mystic aura range, for example). Learn to land combative => reaping without a stun for a kd combo cause when they get up the second time and panic run away cause they're at 60% hp guess what you have waiting for them? A full backstab combo to chase.

4. I'm just gonna stop this wall of text here, it's probably boring enough to read, but I hope you get the gist of it. Learn what each of your moves does through experience. Just play the game a lot and try new things instead of sticking to what you know and you'll find out basic things like leaping strike gets you out of roa/hailstorm, you can get out of root a hundred different ways (including the hilarious backstabbing a slayer who backstabbed you first) and apply those things on the only thing that matters: landing hits.

Next time you're in 3s or bgs focus on practicing those things (though bgs suck cause lag), make it a point to try and land both hits of blade draw every single time so it just becomes second nature and you don't have to even think about it, make a point to practice kd combos instead of stun lock, make it a point to try and read people instead of blindly pressing charging slash and hope for the best. Stop worrying about advanced tactics and worry about hitting all your skills and staying on someone instead.
Edited by: UnderAPancake over 1 year ago
ManicMatt Profile Options #7

1

Oh my god at this post! It's f*cking awesome! Don't worry, I'm not a TLDR guy, so I enjoyed reading every single bit and hoped it wouldn't stop. :D
It's really the information I have been looking for, short, simple, I don't expect to be god in 1 day or even 1 month. Do you have any kind of experience or skill usage you personally prefer? Some further information? I'll start practicing on chasing.

Also; I have a male Castanic warrior, since Elins are master race and all that, is it possible to own as warrior as well? Putting pressure on somebody is definitely easier if you have longer reach.

EDIT: Once again, holy [filtered] man, thanks for the info! I wish I could buy you an e-beer or something.
Edited by: ManicMatt over 1 year ago
UnderAPancake Profile Options #8

1

There's a lot of tricks and stuff wars use that I'm sure other classes have as well. First, I just want to say don't worry about your own race, a good warrior can race change to baraka and still be a good warrior, a bad warrior who race changes to elin won't make 1 bit of difference. I measured distance and attack speed with a cast. male warrior friend once (also amani female) and the movement distance (with rising fury) was almost non-existant. As for reach, the difference is negligible for warriors unlike lancers and zerkers. What *is* important is your opponent's race.

For example, landing combative at point blank range. I mentioned aiming off center, I find that elins and popos are the easiest to hit with backstab => combative. All I have to do is move my camera slightly to the left. Same with cast. females. For the "medium" sized races like human males, cast male and so on I have to move my camera much more to the left (still not a huge difference, but much more relative to elins/popos) to make sure combative lands. The best place to practice this, in my opinion, is corsair's since it's really really easy to get people to road fight you when you're on defense and jump outer wall. You can usually lure a person or 2 out to the woods and kill them, but pay attention to their race and whether combative lands or not. If you have people with lots of different races in your guild willing to help you that's also a good way to learn, but it's honestly better if you're in a real pvp situation.

As for things I like to do, I don't do anything that different or special from other wars, but some things to think about:

never roll 3 times in a row, you're basically saying "hey, you can kill me now"

don't panic death from above, especially vs archers, they'll just shoot a trap under you. Leaping strike out into evasive roll towards your healer with a dfa afterwards to make sure you get the heal is almost always better

Speaking of leaping strike, it's quite good for chasing as well as an alternative to charging slash, try to keep one off cd at all times for chasing though. Rising fury is quite nice to move around but it doesn't get you out of aoes immediately.

And now speaking of rising fury, as you know there's a big delay between the first two hits and the time frame when you can use the third hit. What a lot of healers like to do is run in random directions when a war is getting close so using the first two hits of rising fury to get close and then just running towards them till they turn to chain into a 2 hit blade draw is nice. (decent healers at least, you'll meet tons of healers that run directly forward and only forward)

In 3s, healers will 100% run towards their team when their dps is low on hp so every now and again check the hps of the opponent's dps periodically. If you have a backstab saved then it's a good time to use it. (a bonus is when a dps is low on hp they'll run towards their healer so you can get a free double cascade a lot of times and as long as your dps is awake you can win the game instantly in that moment)

For skills I like, smoke aggressor is pretty broken. Sets off traps, screws up back stabs, knocks people down all for only 20% hp which is negligible if your healer isn't sleeping.

Reaping slash combos out of combative strike and rain of blows, but rain into reaping doesn't work on people with 20% stun reduction unless your net is godly and amazing fps (in eq bgs though it's free). So the obvious kd combo is combative into reaping without blowing any stuns then chase, battle cry and scythe to kd again. Follow that up with roll => vortex => blade draw and backstab after they use their escape skill. I've mentioned that before but this is as bread and butter to wars as the default backstab combo.

Staggering counter => vortex => blade draw is reliable damage so make sure when you have staggering counter ready you roll towards your opponent first so you can get back crits. You can staggering counter => roll => vortex => blade draw but that's not as good cause you can no longer roll into people you always roll through them so you won't get back crits.

Using your aa => combative => aa stagger lock is pretty important. Most people do this after they use their whole backstab combo cause they have nothing else to do which I believe is a pretty big mistake. Personally I like bc => stagger lock => rising fury to chase => kd => get hit => charge + roll to chase => staggering counter => vortex => blade draw => stagger lock => backstab combo. It saves your backstab, manages your bc cooldown if you need it again, saves your cascade of stuns for a team combo if something happens during all of those attacks, and does tons of dmg.

Anyways, most of what I've written is just putting pieces of warriors together to make a "combo". You have chasing abilities like rising/charge/leaping, you have stun combos like backstab and stagger counter combos, you have kd combos like bc into scythe and combative into reaping, and you have stagger combos. Putting these pieces together on the fly is what makes a warrior good. Everyone can read the tool tip and know that backstab with glyph is 21 s cd, staggering is 15, cascade is 15 with glyph, you have 3 rolls instantly and a 4th one in 7 seconds with roll glyph, bc is 30 s cd, reaping is huge at 45, scythe is decent at 12 etc. There's tons of data but that's not really useful if you can't put it together, and the only way to do that isn't by reading about it's putting it into practice.

Using backstab into cascade is never a problem but that won't kill someone without help. Using backstab into cascade and then using staggering counter when cascade is almost up again to extend your staggering stun is only a few seconds faster, but that's the thing, warriors are great at *almost* killing someone from 100-0, not actually killing them. Those few seconds you buy could make a huge difference. Using a staggering -> cascade first means cascade comes off cd in 15 seconds rather than the 21 seconds you have to wait if you fish for backstabs, that's a 6 second difference. It also means you can do a roll -> back stab -> vortex -> blade draw which hurts a lot. Think about these things when you're putting together combo pieces while fighting. I wouldn't theory craft too much outside the game and just play it, a lot of things you just learn by feel. And always remember, the number 1 thing about warriors will always be land your [filtered] skills. None of the above matters if you miss staggering counter or only do 66% dmg with blade draw, you're not gonna be killing anyone decent with that.
Kurogam Profile Options #9

1

0
Neutral
Hazerk.Kyaa Lvl.60
Ascension Valley (PVE)
Elin Archer
So what would the recommended glyph / crystal / zyrk setup be?
ManicMatt Profile Options #10

1

Thanks a ton for the added information! How is it with warrior damage though? I currently have conjunct +9 (gloves&weapon), so I'm only scratching people. Do warriors have enough damage to actually be threatening later on? From what I've read, warriors scale very well with gear. I'm also curious about Kurogam's question. There's a lot of different glyph builds posted around the forums, but I've yet to find my very own, I'm slowly tweaking it left and right.