Akiwoodoh's Post History

Akiwoodoh
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BarbeQQ on 06/25/2012, 01:09 PM - view
Cause it really bothers me when people run poorly designed experiments and then post their conclusions based on misinterpreted results. Then other people who lack critical thinking ability believe it and then start spreading the myth.

Like you pointed out, there's some serious problems with the OP's results. I'm not about to launch my own study and type out a extensive report about why he's wrong. All the "haters" in this thread are pretty much correct. Just some are bigger jerks about it.


This is what everyone seems to be misunderstanding, my results are not from a poorly designed experiment.

Pretty much all I do in Tera these days is play the auction house. For me this means buying low level superiors, enchanting them to +6, then selling for profit. It's why I'm still 38 and not 60 long ago like my friends.

What this means is I've gone to +6 hundreds of times, I won't claim I've done 1,000 yet because I probably haven't, but I'm probably getting close. But that is definitely thousands of attempts at general enchanting from 1 to 6.

My conclusions are based on getting to +6 as efficiently as possible. And by efficient I also mean cheaply. When I enchant an item to +6 these days:

+1 = lowest base item level
+2 = lowest base item level (usually lowest is very cheap so I keep using it)
+3 = highest base item level white item - (at +3 there is a noticable drop in failure rate if I continue to use lowest base item level whites. So depending on the market I switch to mid-range base item levels.
+4 = midrange base item level
+5 = highest item base item level (cheaper to skip this rank quickly than fail a bunch on mid range greens)
+6 = highest item base level green OR if the market has cheap blues, I use these, specifically unenchantable blues because their base item level is higher than enchantable ones.

_____________________________________________________________________________

So to all of the T12+ people who are screaming this doesn't work (but I assume have not tried it) there's a very easy way to test this, start buying unenchantable T12s instead of enchantable. They will have item level 139 instead of 135, and at least on my server, be as cheap as or cheaper than 135s. This should increase your success rate, even if just a little bit - FOR ZERO COST - and then maybe we can get some convincing data for the +7 enchanting.

You are very correct that I probably shouldn't have called this a guide. It was something I was writing and forgot about. When I came back to it I said screw it and posted it. I had forgot the second half was based on theorycrafting, and therefore not exactly guide ready. I apologize for that. Hopefully a GM will rename this for me...

But yeah - everyone feel free to post your own results proving or disproving me. But also understand I tested getting to +6 over and over again. That's a whole lot of enchant attempts. About half of that was before I realized the correlation between item level and my successes and failures. Which means I did not have the foresight to record my results, I did not know I'd be needing that data. Wish I did it'd be useful.
LancelotDL on 06/25/2012, 11:38 AM - view
First off, at least you posted some numbers which is more than I can say for Catatonic. His/her contributions usually extend to nothing more than "you're wrong" which you might as well chalk up as trolling.

That said....the glaring thing to me here is your +6 attempts didn't change, and let's face it, that's what really matters. Most people by now know you have to scale the item as you go, and if you do you don't really start seeing excessive failures in most cases until +6, so that's the one that matters. If your theory held true I would expect test 2 to reflect 10 attempts or less. Maybe your RNG was just that bad and thus would need a larger sample size, but that sticks out like a sore thumb.

And just to throw a small recent experience of my own out there, I recently upgraded all my gear when turning 58 and for the first time in a long time, the tier level stayed the same so I was able to use what I was wearing previously as fodder along with the quest version of the refined alkys to try for some +7's. 3 +6 items used as fodders, not 1 success......BUT their base item level had to have been lower (since it was from a few levels earlier) so perhaps I just made an argument for you...

Don't understand all the hate though. It's not like anyone has to follow your advice, what harm does it do though?


Thanks for a constructive response. A couple answers:

@the difference between the two in +6 - honestly that was part of the victim of the nature of RNG, but I stuck within the rules of my experiment and posted the results anyway, even though they did not blatantly prove my point. +6 has become such an annoying one for me that I started looking for cheap blues and use them if they are available. (an unenchantable blue will be ilevel 65, enchantable 61)

@failures - If my theory is true (which I've yet to see evidence that it isn't, but I digress) this methodology only increases success rates, but at +7 and beyond it would be marginally. For example 2% chance of success instead of 1.8% or something. It's very little benefit overall, but if the odds are that low why not game the odds in your favor? especially when it costs nothing to do so.
Crims on 06/25/2012, 09:03 AM - view
Even if it were to be true, each attempt at +7 and beyond is so expensive already that your method is cost-prohibitive, especially on t12s and 13s.

No one's going broke trying for +6.


That was my whole point.

Most players do not sell their T12s based on item level, i see ilevel 139s cheaper than 135s all the time. So why not use the 139s if they are the same price but are known to increase success even if marginally?
EasymodeX on 06/25/2012, 09:02 AM - view
I got my +9 weapon enchant on a green.

Greens are obviously better to use for enchanting than yellows.

What's your sample size for +7 through +9?


Zero. Which is why I make no claims as to accuracy beyond 6.
I see no reason why base item level if would magically stop mattering at +7 through +9. Do you?
Mommo on 06/25/2012, 03:41 AM - view
Mommo's guide to enchanting:

- From 0 to 6 use whites and greens, ilvl doesn't matter as long as tier is the same(duh!)

- From +7 to +12 have an Elin dance for you while you enchant, makes it around 90% success.
Using gold will make it 100%

Personal testing i did,

Friend wanted to enchant 60 t12 weapon, I danced for her on my elin, +7 and +8 no fails!
For +9 i was an [filtered] cause didn't give me a crystal i wanted, i stopped dancing while she was enchanting making her fail.

Another random person i didn't dance for failed like 10 times getting from +6 to +8 using gold fodder.

So from +6 to +8 with elin dancing 0 fails!

Without elin dancing 10 fails!!

it's proven guys i tested it, luck factor has nothing to do with it it's all about the elins dance;)


That's a sample of 1.
My whole reason for writing this is because I've used a very large sample - using "random ilevels" as well as using "ideal ilevels" once I started seeing a pattern. And have seen the results over and over and over.

Does anyone actually read or they all stop after the first sentence or two?
Edited by: Akiwoodoh 11 months ago - Reason: forgot a [
I think I see the disconnect.

I've been arguing that item level itself matters, which in all of my testing it does. But I also have not tested it beyond +6. Nor have I tested it using enchanted items to enchant. As I stated in the disclaimer anything beyond +7 was just theorycrafting. If item level matters for 1 to 6, it's only reasonable it matters beyond that. It's also reasonable that boosting an item's level by pre-enchanting it would boost it's success rate even if marginally. But it's also just as reasonable that only the items base level actually affects the items success rate.

I thought a disclaimer of anything beyond +7 is theorycrafting was sufficient. I have been focusing on the part I've actually been able to test and prove (at least to myself) and that is base item level matters. Everyone else seems to be focused on the rest of the post which I stated straight up I have not tested. It's all just theory based on what I _have_ tested.

So I guess I'll restart by saying:
I have sufficiently tested and know beyond a doubt that base item level matters.
The rest is speculation based on that information.
That's exactly why I mentioned the achievement specifically.

One thing to consider is most people do not take the item level into account when selling. Therefore you can get a 139 item level for as cheap as or possibly cheaper than an item level 135, increasing your success rate for 0 extra expense...

Unless of course people catch on that this actually works and start charging more for higher item levels in the same tier. Perhaps that's why I'm being trolled.
________________________________________

Out of boredom and richness, here's a little troll food.
________________________________________

Using what is "common knowledge" I enchanted two identical items from 1-6 using white items for 1-3 and green for 4-6.

In test one I used the worst possible item levels.
In test two I used the best possible item levels.

Test one (Item level 51 and 55)

+1 - 1 attempt
+2 - 2 attempts
+3 - 1 attempt

+4 - 4 attempts
+5 - 5 attempts
+6 - 15 attempts
------------------
Total enchant attempts : 28
____________

Test two: (Item level 57 and 59)

+1 - 1 attempt
+2 - 1 attempt
+3 - 1 attempt

+4 - 1 attempt
+5 - 3 attempts
+6 - 15 attempts
------------------
Total enchant attempts : 22

This is just one demonstration. I wrote my guide based on many many +6 enchants. I buy un-enchanted and resell as +6 for profit. So I've done this a lot, and before I realized how this worked I'd just use whatever whites and whatever greens. So I have a lot of experience using everyone else's method, and my improved method. Now I only do my improved method and save a lot of money by much fewer attempts.

It's funny, you try and save people money and they shout "you lie!".

Feel free to try it yourself and post your results.
Catatonic on 06/24/2012, 10:12 PM - view
"You don't agree with me so you are a troll"

Yeah naw.


"All of your posts on pretty much all threads are trolling"

So... Yeah.
Catatonic on 06/24/2012, 10:03 PM - view
/facepalm


Troll somewhere else please.
Except it's sound advice.

As i said... "I have done a lot more +6 enchants than most people. The above is based on my experience and trial and error in getting to +6 as effeiciently as possible."

I guarantee I've done more enchants than both of you, probably both of you combined. My advice will _save_ money because you'll have less failures. I know for a fact my advice works exactly 'as advertised'.

Try it for yourselves before you decry it.