Quote: Acebeans on 05/14/2012, 05:04 PM - view

Just because you haven't seen it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Like all things, however, it's all in chance. Just as you might go from level 20-50 without seeing it happen, he might go 20-50 seeing it happen in every instance he runs. On my Slayer I've seen it happen 0 times, then again, I've got a lancer in my guild that I queue with because we're the same level. And in the 3 times or so I've queued without him, I've not seen it happen. Then again I also haven't had any zerkers in the group when I join, so it may be I am replacing the one he kicked, who knows.

However on my zerker alt that is still low level, it's happened 4 of the 5 times I've gotten a queue. On my warrior alt I've only seen it happen once or twice.

The problem isn't just lancers either, there are [filtered]s of every class doing their best to ruin the experience for the group, the reason that lancers are the main focus of all these threads is that they have the least consequences for their actions. People are actively or subconsciously able to pass off a mystic, sorc, or warrior being an [filtered] and leaving because they know that he has just as long a wait as they do for the queue. That's it, this is what LFG tools do, they get people to abandon putting forth any effort to try and get a group among the surrounding community and ignore people who try to use channels and the LFG board that was already in the game. They add the penalty of significant wait times for some, and almost non-existent times for others, even in games where classes can hold multiple roles this is always the case.

Having a LFG tool added in hastily to appease the people who want all the lazy options that their past games have given them leads to issues like we have, party leaders can be dictators, no guarantee of fair loot distribution (although this has been addressed somewhat with the latest patch), certain classes are able to flaunt threats to the other members of the party simply because they know the consequences of their actions will hurt them more than it hurts themselves.

The addition of the LFG channel will be a testament to how the LFG tool has messed up the process of seeking local groups. People will flood it with spam, and harass or demean people who attempt to use it for it's intended purpose. Not everyone of course but enough that it will make using it a hassle.

Depends on what it was, at max level, getting +9 and beyond isn't just a nice afterthought or something only min/max players worry about, it's basically required/expected of people to get to that point as quickly as they can to be more effective. Now granted if it's an item someone can put good use to as a primary weapon, then yes he should cede it to the needy party. However if it's just a matter of it being potential Trade Broker fodder then he's got every right to need on it for enchanting purposes.

I can anticipate a failing trend with many people after they hit max level, they'll forego enchanting anything farther than +3 (or maybe just not enchant at all) and not spend the time or gold trying to change the stats on their weapons via the enigma scrolls, wasting potential enchant fodder gear because it randomed better green buffs on it than the same item level gear they already have that they were too lazy to try and optimize.

I hope this doesn't become the case but honestly with how some people act in the game and on these forums, I'd say it doesn't bode well.

30+ second delay from posting another comment in the channel, and a limit on the # of characters you can put in a LFG post.

Although I hope that they would have the foresight of having your chat bar stop putting in text once you hit that limit, unlike the Guild MotD and personal status text boxes where you can type a novel but it won't save until you guess the max characters allowed on save.

The major problem I have seen while playing my warrior and "allowing" to be queued as tanks is the glyphs. There is a very distinct cut between glyphs for tanking and glyphs for doing damage. And since you can't have two different sets of glyphs to toggle between, you have to choose between them. For leveling you're going to want the +damage +attackspeed + cooldown reduction glyphs for damaging moves. For tanking you're going to want +aggro +endurance and cooldown reduction for tanking and threat moves. Trying to level with all tanking glyphs sucks because it slows you down, sure you can still get through stuff just fine, but you're hamstringing yourself. But if you don't take them and want to try and tank for an instance when you queue for it, you've got to go all the way back to town and reset them or hope that you can manage with all dps glyphs.

This is the inherent problem with having a hybrid class in this game. It's the only Hybrid class and so it is the only one that has to deal with this problem. So inventing new mechanics just to appease this one class isn't very good resource management from a development perspective.

The biggest problem is that they can't just make warriors "tank only" since they're supposed to be the light/agile/breakable tank they can't lower their damage to that of a lancer to say "hey you gotta tank because your dps sucks" or they'd be so painful to level that no one would play them.

On the other hand if they make them DPS only, they almost have to remove, or at least heavily alter their tanking moves to make them as vulnerable as other melee dps classes are.

And even if they leave them as Hybrid, problems like the OP's statement are going to continue. Warriors will continue to be the [filtered] class that people enjoy playing, but are continually frustrated by limitations and/or short comings of being the only Hybrid class among a list of single role counterparts.

The only solution that I can come up with off the top of my head would be to make warrior glyphs have dual effects, a tanking version and a DPS version that are controlled by whether they are in assault stance or defensive stance. Glyphs that are effective for both tanking and DPS could stay as universal glyphs that are effective across both stances.

Then make changing stances only available out of combat, and have like a 2-5 second cast time to prevent quick changing during PVP. This way they don't have to invent some sort of multiple glyph save system that would have to be applied to every class, and they could limit the changes to one classes sets of Glyphs. I'm sure it would have its problems, but it seems easier to modify what is already there, rather than invent a new system to try and alleviate the problem.

Come on now people, don't feed the troll just because he actually composed real words and sentences.

I assume he has to be trolling, to give him the benefit of the doubt that he isn't completely and willfully ignorant of the classes he is talking about. I mean otherwise how can he not see the ridiculousness of his claims, that a 5 star difficulty rating class, somehow doesn't feel as though it's complete and strong by level 20, in comparison to a ranged class with a 2 star rating.

Also that he would be completely ignorant of the fact that you can circle kite the vast majority of mobs (especially in the first 20 levels) with only the use of the warriors auto attacks, not truly needing your evasive roll until you start soloing BAMs.

Not to mention that even though he hasn't unlocked the skills yet, being sub level 26, to realize that skilled warriors become an amazing pvp choice especially in 1v1 situations. Unless you think that damage dealing moves that grant damage reduction and/or damage immunity in conjunction with various stuns that can be achieved through both skills and glyphs equates to poor pvp potential.

In the near unimaginable case that he isn't trolling and does in fact think that what he wrote has any semblance of truth to it, I would suggest that he perhaps take 15, even 5 minutes to skim through a warrior play style overview. Even look up a single warrior play style guide on youtube, to get a base understanding of the class, and then proceed to level it at least into the mid 30's before coming up with any more hasty conclusions.

I haven't leveled really far on the pvp server yet, so granted there are others who are more experienced, however when I put on the levels it during the end of the open beta and during the pre-release event. Basically I'm insinuating that I leveled during times where there was plenty of people capped out and well above me in level.

I was ganked a total of 2 times, and died once. Granted I am not on Valley of Titans but Basilisk Craig seemed to have plenty of people on it regardless. The one time I died it was to a higher level person, but that was because I tried to mix it up on one of the lumber town bridges in channel 1 vs the couple higher level people who were there. In short I was asking for it. The second time I was ganked I was out around the Kumas/naga area level 23 and 2 players around my level (one higher one lower) jumped me, I was able to attack them back and retreat, again I was in Channel 1 when this happened.

The point of this is, there will always be ahole gankers, it's just a fact of life. Nothing you can do to get around it in this game or any other one if you're rolling on a pvp server. All you can do is better your odds of avoiding them. Stay out of populated channels, don't start random fights if you plan on attempting to level heavily, don't insult other people and talk smack if you want to focus on leveling. If you are inconspicuous you are less likely to become a target.

Gankers can usually fit into one of two types:
1) Players with a lot of time on their hand to hit max level, but are generally unskilled vs people their own level. They gank to feel like a strong man badass.

2) Players that are just trolls/[filtered]s, they might be good, hell even great vs people their own level, but they get some sort of personal satisfaction from attacking people that have no chance at all at fighting back. These guys are worse because even if you get help they might be better players than the help you bring, which I'm sure makes them feel even more badass.

By keeping your profile low changing channels on a somewhat regular basis and not going out of your way to piss people off, you can generally level in peace. Then when you feel like fighting against people your own level, hit outlaw go to populated channels and fight away, but don't complain if you decide you want to level afterwards and are suddenly sought out by gankers looking to avenge their friends/guildies/alts.

You will never completely avoid ganks by over leveled people, that's just the risk you take on a PVP server, but if you think about it and play smart you can put yourself in situations where you are least likely to be ganked, and that's about as good as it gets.

I agree with this, under the pretext that they could still do damage as they can now. Like some people have said, they rolled that class expecting to be DPS, no need to force them to tank if they have no interest in it. You could get by with the tanking/dps role by making/changing some glyphs for survival that would sacrifice some of their damage or have some sort of system where if you pick a defensive glyph for one move you can't get the damage boosting version of it. Just ideas. I thought that since the NA closed beta started, Warriors need to be mobile and with a lot of mobs in the higher level ranges having fast attacks with a lot of 180 and 360 degree cleaves (see last boss in Gold Labyrinth) it's hard enough for melee to get in behind the boss let alone deal with him rotating from front to back as the warrior jumps through to his back side to prevent damage.

Although if something like this happend, the zerkers would need a few glyphs of "Increases chargespeed/attackspeed and threat dealt by something%, reduces damage by something%" glyphs for tanking. They'd be able to block all right, but they would be hard pressed to get threat with how long it takes to charge abilities.

While I don't feel like every World Boss needs to always drop a blue or gold, it would be nice if they dropped at least an assortment of greens, or crafting mats or maybe tokens. If you're going to guarantee great loot dropping every kill then you need to increase the respawn timers to where a world boss fight is rare.

If bosses are on shorter timers then you can't have it drop a great piece every kill unless you make that piece bind on equip. But that doesn't mean that when it doesn't drop a gold or blue you should get nothing. When a boss drops nothing (or nothing but a couple white pieces) it puts a sour taste in your mouth, soon you end up skipping trying to kill any special boss or mob since you'll figure it's just a waste of time, which takes part of the allure of the game and makes it seem like it's pointless.

Like anything in a game there needs to be a risk vs reward with enough incentive to make players feel that it's worth the effort you put into it. I personally like to test myself vs BAMs when I get quests for them, especially if the quest only requires me to kill 1-3 of them to get the exp reward from it. But I know other people that completely skip them since they feel as though they'll be able to get more exp faster by simply skipping the BAM quests and going straight to the normal mob and storyline quests. My enjoyment of testing my mettle against a BAM solo is enough initiative for me, but not others.

The difference with Boss BAMs is that they are usually a bit harder and have nothing but perhaps a guild quest associated with them. Even if they had a small % chance to drop an amazing item, from levels 1-40ish you level so fast that really grinding/working hard for any item is more trouble than it's worth. Once you get up around 48+ leveling pace slows down a bit to where an enigmatic weapon is good enough to warrant enchanting it to +6 or so since it might last you for a while.

So if the boss is at least bloated with green level loot with a small chance of a good blue or gold then they can at least salvage some gear to use as enchant fodder or the like.

Deliciously appropriate!

Here's a video of people testing the move distances of every race. When they do the lancer test, they also test out the attack range of all the races. With lancer at least, the "worst distance" is held by Aman females and Baraka, with High elves having the longest reach and the rest having a 6-7 yard range.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2JiSlcjVBc

What I am wondering about (just because I haven't seen anyone else talk about it yet) is where is the anchor point for the cross hairs to measure how far away a target is. Does the range identifier go from the outermost point of your hit box the the closest side of the enemy hit box, or does it go from a center point in the middle of your hit box to the center point of the targets hit box, or some combination of the middle of one to the outside of the other?

If every character model had the exact same size hit box, this wouldn't matter so much, but as we know, the races and mobs have a wide variety of sizes to choose from. Then take into consideration the reach of your attacks, and if their range is a measured value then where does that measurement take place from.


Say the value for the length of the first auto attack is 8m. If the measurement takes place from a point on the outer edge of your hit box, and the range finder measures from the outside edge of your hit box to the edge mobs hit box when the range finder says 8m you should reach. However if the range finder measures from the edge of your box to the edge of the mobs box, and your attack range is measured from the center point of your hit box, if your character has a 2m square length/width the 8m attack will lose 1m going from the center of the hit box to the outer edge.

So, if that scenario (or any such similar variant of it) plays out you could end up with a situation like this:
You take an elin and a baraka lancer and give them an 8m attack range from their respective center points. Then you give the elin a 1m square hit box and the baraka a 3m square hit box, and put them so that their respective center points are 9m away from each other. The elin hitbox is safe, being effectively half a meter out of the range of the baraka's attack. However the elin would end up hitting the baraka since his hit box extends 1.5m from the center point into the 8m range of the elin's attack.

Every race could potentially have the exact same attack length, but due to hit box sizes and how the range finder actually finds it's points of measure it can give off the illusion that some have longer/shorter reaches, when in actuality it is the size of the hit box that is throwing off the distance.

Or it could be even more confusing and be a combination of a situation like I have explained above, AND the races have different values for their ranges. This is all conjecture on my part, I unfortunately don't have any hard evidence to back it up. It's merely something to think about since truthfully there's nothing we can do about it, it's up to EME to look into it if they feel it is truly necessary. Honestly though, with the amount of movement and the slight variation between the supposed range differences it truly doesn't seem like that big of a deal.

I understand the OP's annoyance at it, I just don't feel that it is so great a difference that it could warrant a race reroll just to stay competitive in PVP or PVE. Sure you may just barely miss an attack occasionally, but the game is way to sporadic and fast for anyone to reliably always attack in a manner that allowed them to hit you without you hitting them with you both being the same class with different races.