[quote name='localh' at='2012-02-29 22:38:49 UTC'][quote name='Evilnox' at='2012-02-29 16:02:49 UTC']
I don't think that is going to kill world pvp at all.[/quote]

[quote name='localh' at='2012-02-29 22:38:49 UTC']Here we go with I do not think x. This is pure conjecture and disregards what we know about how KTERA works currently and how dungeon finder effects other MMOs. This also disregards the fact that the best course of action that a player can choose to benefit himself at end game is to: 1) Do an instance (as the best gear lies there, and generally a priority objective for most MMORPG players) and 2), receive free enchanting materials on top of that as a bonus for clicking a button.

Hence, if people are mostly doing instances where the greatest reward lies, what happens to the open world if you just get teleported there and back? What is even the point of level 58 world bosses? As I lay out in my previous post, their drops are not as good nor predictable.

Again, all I am arguing is that this game has an amazing open world and great pvp right now. Players interacting with the open world will diminish significantly should dungeon finder in its current form get installed as there becomes no comparable benefit for the player to use it.[/quote]

Hah, you are seriously willing to tell someone else their argument is based on conjecture??!! You try to attack peoples' logic while seriously failboating and following the same "failed" logic.

MMO's did not "die" because of LFD tools. That is ridiculous. PvP did not "die" because of LFD tools. Do you even understand how the growth of MMO's/video games has affected the gameplay? When EQ1 and Lineage were in their prime, players would play the game because it was a more serious hobby for them. We PvP'd because it was fun, not because there was 10 tiers of gear to go through with endless titles and rewards. Over the past 10 years video gaming has changed immensely. The players that play the games are no longer a singular audience. Video gaming and MMOs in particular went from a niche subculture to full mainstream in our life times. Starcraft is televised just like sports.

The EQ1/Lineage/Ultima/Shadowbane etc... days are gone. Get over it. Game designers aren't adding these tools to kill games or features within games. It's because the majority of players will use them and want them in game. The majority is their paycheck.

Most of you idiots screaming doomsday about LFD tools wont even take the time to make a group in town and run to your instance in games where there is a LFD tool!

NOTHING IS STOPPING YOU FROM FORMING GROUPS AND RUNNING TO THE INSTANCE.

Even if there is a LFD tool in place why aren't you guys out forming your groups manually and running everyone to the instance???? Just because you CAN use the LFD tool means you HAVE to?

You would be doing this if you had if your way any how!!! But suddenly you won't do it because everyone else is not forced to do it?

Who knows that you wont find a few players to kill or a group/guild going for a boss? You are very irrational in assuming every single player is going to only do instances because they are all focusing only on gear. Yet other people's arguments are based on conjecture?!

Just because a group of people are sitting in town using the LFD tool all day doesnt mean every single player is doing the same thing.


Also, you hinge your argument heavily on KTera. They have stated numerous times they will be changing core features from KTera to suit a more western audience. Your doomsaying is fun, but there is nothing confirmed.

Until we are playing the final version, everything you say will be based purely on conjecture.

Man, these hypothetical "guess" posts are just a waste of space. The OP is just guessing at things and somehow calling for change before anything even happens. Did you forget that not everyone has rabid "epic lewt" tunnel vision?

PvE/PvP players using LFD tool = PvP players wont PvP anymore?

Dungeon Finding tool is ultimately a choice, if everyone is against it, don't use it and run to the god damn instance!! What is stopping anyone from doing this?!

So you guys are ok with a system that autofinds a group and teleports you to the instance as long as its your server?

And not ok with a system that autofinds a group and teleports you to the instance when its with people on your server AND not on your server?

So if the argument is also not about autofinding the group and teleporting you, then what exactly does cross server LFD do that is harmful?

Ninja looters? Regardless of cross server instances they happen. Not having a LFD does not solve this nor does not having LFD somehow give us a channel to prevent it or spread awareness.

Not knowing people from other servers? How does this hurt a game overall by exposing more of the player base to each other...

More reasons??

If that's what the argument is down to, and everyone is ok with how it works, I find cross server hardly as impactual as its actual mechanical implementation into our playing experience... But then I'll excuse myself and allow people to argue over nuance again.

[quote name='thegypsyking' at='2012-02-24 00:25:04 UTC'][quote name='Daemonn' at='2012-02-24 00:12:19 UTC']Lol, I've seen the rhetoric typed out enough times. You guys have passionate arguments, but no real data, nothing to actually stand by other than "Oh yea my server died cause of it..." or similar such statements.

With the LFD tool, the only thing that REALLY changes is the fact that you have the option to use it to easily and quickly find a group and get a teleport to the instance.

Nothing has stopped players from choosing to run or to use this tool. You say the majority dont want it, hence its bad for the game. If the majority are all for forming groups in spam chat and then running for several minutes somewhere, AWESOME - GO DO IT. If you have the majority, your game is still intact!! You should have no problem playing like the LFD tool doesn't exist!
[/quote]

[quote]This is just piss poor reasoning and a terrible argument. The idea of "if you don't like it you don't have to use it" has no relevance here. Why? Because the major reason opponents of the system give for not liking LFD is how it effects their server. Telling them to not use the tool doesn't solve their issue, so stop acting like its some ingenious solution. [/quote]

Lol please elaborate on how you forming groups in town and taking them to the instance doesn't solve the issue of "not seeing fellow server players in instances".

Damn, attack of the strawmen!!!

Seriously guys, people who are going to use the tool to teleport to the instance and find groups quickly (which you claim is bad etc) will use it regardless of whether its Cross Server or single.

So you guys are ok with a system that autofinds a group and teleports you to the instance as long as its your server?

And not ok with a system that autofinds a gorup and teleports you to the instance when its with people not on your server?


If that's what the argument is down to, and everyone is ok with how it works, I find it hardly as impactual as its actual mechanical implementation into our playing experience... But then I'll excuse myself and allow people to argue over nuance again.

Lol, I've seen the rhetoric typed out enough times. You guys have passionate arguments, but no real data, nothing to actually stand by other than "Oh yea my server died cause of it..." or similar such statements.

With the LFD tool, the only thing that REALLY changes is the fact that you have the option to use it to easily and quickly find a group and get a teleport to the instance.

Nothing has stopped players from choosing to run or to use this tool. You say the majority dont want it, hence its bad for the game. If the majority are all for forming groups in spam chat and then running for several minutes somewhere, AWESOME - GO DO IT. If you have the majority, your game is still intact!! You should have no problem playing like the LFD tool doesn't exist!

What factual data do you have that shows if you manually formed groups and got people to run to the instance they would not encounter other players or player situations and thus engage in the same community/social experience you are claiming is diminished by the LFD tool?

Just because players aren't out running to instances doesn't mean they aren't out questing, farming for mats, PKing, Grinding, hunting bosses/BAMs - where do you see yourself ending up if you formed groups manually in chat and asked people to run to the instance before hand?

If the majority supports you there shouldn't be much of a problem finding groups and doing it that way, even if it would be - (wish I had italics) - Old School.

With an Cross Server or Server LFD tool - again, what stops you from forming a group and running to an instance?

You are willing to do that if the game does not have a LFD tool, but with it, you are unwilling to form a group and run to the instance - possibly encountering players and potential for social interactions along the way.

I'm just not seeing how this would limit players who want to form groups manually and run to their instances.... Players are simply choosing not to. The option has always remained to run to the dungeons/raids/whatever.

What's stopping you? You would be doing this if there was no dungeon tool. You say the majority of players are against this move - then why aren't the majority of the players doing the very thing they would have to do if there was no tool - forming groups in cities and running to places?!

If there was a true majority behind this, you should have no problems finding a group in a city and hoofing it with those like minded majority individuals to your adventure places, with or without a dungeon finding tool (that currently as we know it, does not require you to use it to go to said adventure places...).

So they implement a feature that will be in all MMO style games going forward... Let's say you're playing the upcoming version of Tera with said LFD Tool -

What exactly stops you from forming a party and running to the instance?


Regardless of what's implemented its up to the user to participate, if the majority of players dislike this system/tool then they should simply not use it.

The only problem is I think we'll find the majority of players are in favor of this system, as probably shown by metrics and data gathered through industry standards etc... otherwise why would they exist at all? If a company is catering to anyone, its the paying customer. If the majority of paying customers want the option to use a LFD tool - they should at least have the option.

As a paying customer you can make the choice to not use it and also rally people around not using it etc... The bottom line is choice. Here with this system, we have both. Having no system limits the paying customer's options.

If Joe Schmoe can spend 2 hours playing, why would he want to spend 15-30 minutes running somewhere and possibly getting killed endlessly by people camping the entrance areas etc...? All in all gaining absolutely nothing except wasted time.

In the scheme of things, I think you'll find the majority of paying customers do indeed support this system. I think what we have here is another case of the very vocal minority making a lot of noise.

....

It always amazes me when I see people say the G510 or G13 are bad because the keys are too far from the movement keys...

Ever considered binding movement keys to your mouse and getting used to that? Now you have one hand free for tons of ability keys. My G13 has 1-12 like normal, then ALT + 1-12, CRTL + 1-12, Shift + 1-12.... 48 key binds all within reach of my hand and thumb.

I use my mouse to strafe and auto run. I just get used to turning auto run on/off and strafing on the mouse, binding whatever it is to my Logitech Performance MX mouse. I will be redoing the movement keys on a new mouse soon, so I can used WASD on the mouse and my left hand for abilities.