Jitterz's Post History

Jitterz
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Meddadog on 07/13/2012, 09:19 PM - view


what i WILL grant you is that it has a very high skill ceiling, and as a result there are a lot of warriors who arent all that good. most start giving up around sky garden (you are not there yet)... the good ones keep on after that


Glad to hear that the skill gap starts to become prevalent late game and the bads get weeded out :)

Thanks all, you have restored the small bit of faith I had lost in the game for a little while there.
Teoh on 07/13/2012, 10:15 PM - view
Jitterz on 07/13/2012, 01:03 PM
Sorry let me spell it out for those of you with hindered reading comprehension and/or lack of understanding of the implications.

1. The warrior is holding aggro, this means that the mob will follow wherever the warrior goes.


No it means the mob will attack in the direction of the Warrior when it begins an attack. A boss spends 90% of the fight locked into the animation of large attacks, and most of the remaining time standing still without even moving.

It doesn't matter how much the Warrior moves, because you aren't aiming at the Warrior - the only thing that matters is the position of the Warrior at the moment the boss begins it's next attack. So the question is, why isn't your Warrior in the right place as the next attack is targetted?

Keep playing, eventually i'll lead you to a decent conclusion about how to tank.


What makes you think that I have a warrior tank? You're confused, go back and re-read.
madcow305 on 07/13/2012, 02:04 PM - view
ITT: Level 42 thinks he's played enough to post a comprehensive analysis of why warriors are bad at tanking.

Even IF it was a fact that warriors were bad at tanking at level 42, and the OP was NOT just inexperienced or mistaken, what the hell does lvl 42 have any bearing on for the class as a whole?



Warriors causing DPS to constantly reposition would make them a bad choice at any level. Instead of arguing semantics, let's focus on the discussion points.

Supposedly this is not common in the end-game, and/or also viewed as bad in the end-game. According to the feedback I've seen here, it is not so much an issue with the class as it is the way bad players are utilizing the skills.

Try to keep up.
NotZ on 07/13/2012, 01:18 PM - view
1. The warrior is holding aggro, this means that the mob will follow wherever the warrior goes.

2. The warrior flips over the mob to avoid being hit.


Revised #3: Warrior tank has failed. Hard.

You don't flip over the mob, you flip back or side to side, depending on the attack you are avoiding. That way the BAM either moves forward a little or rotates a little. It does not spin around, causing the whole party to have to reposition.

As was said above already, warrior tanking is not easy. It is easy to get wrong. But things like spinning the boss around 180 shouldn't happen.

Edit: Something that new warrior tanks might not realize. Dodge roll goes in the direction of the WASD keys, if you have one pressed. That is, if you just press your dodge roll shortcut, you will roll forward, through the BAM, and your party will hate you. If you press A + dodge roll shortcut you will roll to the left, causing the massive BAM to shift orientation by like 5 degrees. You then walk back in to position (while building aggro) and get prepared to dodge to the side again.

Most other classes don't have skills that behave in this manner, so it is easy for a new warrior tank not to realize this.


Again I'm glad to hear this, although at 44 I would expect that warriors have realized it by now. I play warrior as DPS and figured out the dodge roll manipulation before I hit level 2... :/
missymiss on 07/13/2012, 09:15 AM - view

Jitterz on 07/13/2012, 08:39 AM
They have to constantly move around

If they are tanking properly, that’s within close range anyway to no more than 30 degrees to each side, in which they can quickly return to position.


I have never seen this, and yes it does seem proper. It will be refreshing to get to a point in the game when this is common practice.

missymiss on 07/13/2012, 09:15 AM - view
Jitterz on 07/13/2012, 08:39 AM
Warrior Constantly repositioning is the better option because if you don't you are likely to take much more damage, using up much more of the healer's resources.


Unless you are talking newbie dungeons, repositioning is required even with a lancer in the group. And truth be told...the players who usually take the most resources (from observation) appear to be DPS classes (particularly melee range), and not the tank (either warrior or lancer).


This is misquoted. The sentence starts with "Constantly" and I was referring to the DPS. So yes, I would agree that the players who take the most resources are melee dps, which supports my main point.

missymiss on 07/13/2012, 09:15 AM - view
Jitterz on 07/13/2012, 08:39 AM

Warrior tank = SLOW runs.


Unless it’s a situation where the group wipes due to players underperforming or being new to the instance, so far every dungeon I’ve played even before hitting 60 with a warrior in it has been faster. Of course, a warrior making mistakes is a greater burden on the team than a lancer making mistakes (they have a higher likelihood of dying), so it’s really rough on first timers. But just the fact that warriors do not have as effective taunts as lancers and need to constantly dps to keep aggro (being that their dps is also better, they don’t have to block attacks just quickly evade or use dmg lessening skills that also do dps, and therefore have a easier time holding aggro), I don’t see this statement holding water.


Regardless of your memory of personal experience with warriors in your group, I think we can all agree that DPS having to constantly reposition = slower runs. The difference between warrior tank and lancer dps is negligible.

missymiss on 07/13/2012, 09:15 AM - view
Jitterz on 07/13/2012, 08:39 AM

Too bad you are still going to do way less DPS overall due to the non-stop shifting, so this really isn't a benefit at all.


This to me just says inexperience and lack of knowledge.


Agreed. I've only been playing for a couple weeks and only level 44. Again, it would be refreshing to see a warrior tank that does not cause this kind of constant DPS interruption, but I have yet to experience that.
Teoh on 07/13/2012, 09:07 AM - view
Jitterz on 07/13/2012, 08:39 AM
they have to constantly move around.


You seem to be confused, you're supposed to be aiming at the boss, not the Warrior.


Sorry let me spell it out for those of you with hindered reading comprehension and/or lack of understanding of the implications.

1. The warrior is holding aggro, this means that the mob will follow wherever the warrior goes.

2. The warrior flips over the mob to avoid being hit.

3. The mob turns to follow the warrior (see item 1.)

4. Now the DPS is at the front of the mob where they will be hit by attacks unless they reposition. Any DPS bonus they get form being behind the mob is now lost as well.

5. Two scenarios:

a. The DPS stays put to maintain DPS output at a lower rate, has a high potential to be hit by the mob causing the healer to work harder and use up more resources.

b. The DPS runs around the mob to its back, losing 1-2 seconds of DPS, breaking any chain moves that they were in the middle of.

When scenario 5. b. occurs every 3-5 seconds, it severely gimps the overall DPS output. When scenario 5. a. occurs every 3-5 seconds, it moderately gimps DPS output but drains healer resources severely.
Travail on 07/11/2012, 10:41 PM - view
I doubt very much that Bluehole will be fixing

-Travail.


Every time I read "Bluehole" I instantly think "Butthole."

Anyone else do this?
Warrior tanks are horribad. Not because they cannot avoid damage or anything like that, but because they have to constantly move around.

This means DPS can either stay in their current position to maintain output, but doing less damage overall than if they were behind, or they can constantly reposition throughout the fight doing MUCH less dps overall.

Constantly repositioning is the better option because if you don't you are likely to take much more damage, using up much more of the healer's resources.

1) Forces the group into dog[filtered] DPS.

2) Puts a heavier burden on the healer.

Warrior tank = SLOW runs.

I know people think a warrior tank is good because the group will already have the debuffs, so they can replace a warrior DPS with a slayer or sorc. Too bad you are still going to do way less DPS overall due to the non-stop shifting, so this really isn't a benefit at all.

What is the benefit of a warrior tank then?

Discuss.
Warrior is level 14, I'm diggin the play style for sure. I was going to go zerker at first, but that was only because I imagined a class called "Berserker" having fast attacks and high mobility like the Warrior has.. I definitely would not have been happy with one lol.

Thanks everyone who has contributed to this thread :)
LIKE A BAUSS

Hmmm gonna go pick up gram for my Tera introductory weekend now... wish me luck! :)

P.S. I think I've also settled on warrior, like a boss.
Edited by: Jitterz 11 months ago