Quote: bentcurve on 05/03/2012, 11:48 AM - view

This post cracks me up to no end. You do know that En Masse is a publisher OWNED by the developer right? They were created because of laws restricting them from publishing under their original company. En Masse however is staffed by American personel and as such they took liberties to make changes.

As for the comment about civil suits, I just have to point out this product is marked M which means it isn't to be sold to anyone under 17. If a parent were to take En Masse to court and say "Look judge! They showed my 12 year old child a girl wearing what amounts to swimwear!" the judge would laugh them out of the courtroom and potentially contact social services for the parent failing to protect their child from material they knew was questionable.

I will credit you with that, I wasn't paying attention (busy trying not to die) when I read it however the point remains the same, even the mod himself said he was unsure. He believes one of his fellow staffers said it was going to be handled by Bluehole but that's called passing the buck, they knew people were unhappy and were looking for a scapegoat.

Congratulations TrueElin, you just sabotaged yourself by using an unsubstantiated souce (IE a post from a forum moderator on a FAN SITE) who even states "I could have sworn..." meaning that they aren't even sure themselves.

You failed to read what I said, they are a subsidiary, Bluehole must give them the go-ahead for the final changes but En Masse isn't responsible for alerting them of every change as they happen.

"Wholly controlled" does not translate to "under constant moderation" it merely means they own the controlling stake of the company. En Masse is for all intents and purposes a separate entity from Bluehole in this discussion and the claim that Bluehole made the changes is preposterous, Bluehole would not release substandard textures that have been added, not after putting that much effort into the game. En Masse may be trying to "pass the buck" off to Bluehole for the changes but it is clearly not the case.

You're all "+1"ing someone who is ill-informed.

1) The ESRB has A LOT to do with this discussion as all major retailers REQUIRE an ESRB rating to sell a product.

2) It isn't the toning down that's the issue, it's the censoring of all basic mature themes and still marketing the game to mature audiences. It's like labeling Scream as R and replacing the killer's weapon with a rubber knife and having the victims be stuck in time out for the rest of the movie.

3) There is censorship as En Masse ISN'T Bluehole, they are a subsidiary and not the core company, they make independent changes to the game and seek approval for the final product; all texture modifications were done by En Masse (as is evident by the poor texture quality).

Am I missing anything?

Tizuby, the only thing En Masse must seek approval for is changes to the game's core code. Texture changes, alterations to quest text, feature addition and removal are all on their own discretion. In the end all they do is hand Bluehole a copy of the finished product and say "This alright boss?" most likely Bluehole (being a Korean studio and unfamiliar with American/European studio practices) didn't do much in depth digging to see all the changes, they probably just gave a brief overview to ensure the game was fundamentally the same product and said ship it.

Tizuby, I'm going to point this out once again that this is NOT En Masse's property, they are a subsidiary which means they are merely affiliated with the core company and as such, like with Frogster, they can make changes without the consulting of Bluehole.

Firstly, the idea that En Masse doesn't make changes unless Bluehole tells them is laughable because if that were the case then the game would most likely have been released as is and only translated. Your argument fails dismally at that point.

Secondly, do you even understand what a subsidiary is? I'm noticing this a lot that many of you are unfamiliar with what that actually entails. A subsidiary company is an independent company that is affiliated with a larger core company (the key word here is independant, they report their final changes but don't seek approval), in this case it is Bluehole. Subsidiaries are required only to report changes made and then Bluehole has the right to review and veto them if they deem necessary. This is the same as with all Publisher/Developer arrangements, this one in particular is just fundamentally reversed from the normal situation (Normally the publisher purchases the developer not vice versa.)

You still completely ignore the hypotheticals I presented, Zera. You my friend, have just lost the argument by saying (exactly what I said you would) that Elin are children and you completely ignored the facts about underdeveloped women.

You ask for a rebuttal and then merely state I'm wrong because of your misinformed opinion. Try that in the real world, go tell a petite girl "Sorry you can't wear revealing clothing because you don't look eighteen." I'm sure she'd be happy to sue you for discrimination.

You must refer to this.

"One. Stretching your vocabulary and posting overly long-winded arguments does not make you seem more intelligent nor does it lend you credibility. In fact it only comes off as desperate.

Two. Using the "censorship of art" argument is like using the age old asian, "Sure, I drew a naked nine yea old but she's, 3000 years old because I say so!" You still drew a naked 9 year old. The excuse didnt work twenty years ago and it doesnt work now.

Third. The censorship of art argument is invalid in the first place. Everything is considered art to someone, including murder, and all profound things like pedos. This is why we have censorship at all. The same reason we have laws. So the rest of us don't have to deal with your issues. You want nipples? Internets full of porn. I for one am glad I can play this game around family and not be embarrassed. Get over it, mate. Suck it. "


*cracks knuckles* Time for a bit of logic. Firstly, you as every other foolish person here only focus around one thing and one thing only... You're all obsessed with the Elin and are attempting to shift the conversation off of the censorship in general by talking of paedophilia. Even your rebuttal talks about nine year old girls. The irony of calling me a paedophile while you yourselves are the ones obsessed with the concept of scantily clad petite women (and that's what they are, not children) being children and to use your own ideas against you; I'd seek counseling because you obviously have a problem with identifying the difference between a woman and a child.

Now then as I said IN THE ORIGINAL POSTING; it's all perception. What appears as a young girl to you might actually be a girl well into her 20's or even 30's who just has a petite build, they could even have a genetic disorder, or they might be of asian decent (this is not a racist statement, it is merely used to show that many asian women well into their 20's/30's look as if they were only 15-18.)

Shoving your paedophilia argument aside, the issue is the censorship of art and EME did blatantly censor it because of exactly what you and all the other pro-censors are saying; they wanted to shut you up before you even opened your traps.

But then again I've yet to see anyone address my later comment about this being a slippery slope so I say again what if they decide to appease another demographic and make all female characters become crafters who are not allowed to leave town? Or what if they make it so that all weapons are foam bats to appease the anti-violence crowd. I can go on and on with hypothetical situations like this but the point remains the same, by censoring to such a strong degree now it shows what they are willing to do in the future with no justification.

I'd just like to start by saying that all of you making accusations that I will end up a sexual predator or that I'm obsessed with children; if you read that entire posting (which only one paragraph was on the subject of the Elin) then you're both completely moronic and frankly by simply stating this and nothing more you've effectively shown everyone that you are far from mature enough to handle an adult conversation on a sensitive subject.

I'd suggest you all rethink making accusations against one's character less you wish for them to make inferences on yours. And trust me I could quite easily stop ignoring it and lay into each and every one of you.

Now then, as I said before the easiest solution is a compromise for all players sake. It would be quite easily to add in a parental control option with a password sent directly to the email of the account owner (as anyone under 17 is required to have their parents create the account there is no liability in this method) and have the password enable the original textures/undergarments in game.

Of course this option would appease both sides as it would simply be a client side change and the textures would be altered only for you.

On top of this the email with the password would have to contain a detailed explanation of what it was for.

Example:
Dear [USER],

We have recently added a feature to unlock the original mature rated content that was contained in TERA upon it's release, this content includes the addition of attire that might not be suitable for younger players and the ability to view an avatar's undergarments. As a responsible company these features are restricted VIA a password and must be enabled by an adult account holder (I.E. parental permission is required for users below the age of 17).

We thank you for playing our game.
[Company, game]


EDIT: And Zera, I didn't respond to it because I was working. I hadn't bothered to check this posting til just now. I'll make sure to read your post and rip your argument asunder in just a moment.