You have to be real "brilliant" to even make this post , your boyfriend is obviously dumb for not looting his items within time. To come on a forum & bash people for his stupidity shows who the real stupid person or people are..aka you & your bf! You really expect people in a mmo full of dopes to actually care who's loot belongs to who? Do you ever watch the lfg chat channel? Thats a good indication of what type of people play these games & you actually post on a forum about it?

I have a level 60 sorc aswell & I would never come on here doing what you did, get over it it's just a video game, Is this your 1st mmo? Certainly sounds that way. Unfortunately online games/ well just the internet is full of people that are scammers aka the people taking loot that is not theirs, & dumb people, like you & your bf for his methods of farming, & you for coming on here to complain about something he is CLEARLY at fault in doing.

Quote: Loganx1121 on 04/17/2012, 09:42 AM

As you said people will see the description and think "Oh a tank that isn't boring" and they'll choose the warrior, get used to it, get good at it, come to enjoy the class thoroughly, but then once they reach the cap with their friends/guildmates or what have you, their friends/guildmates are going to want to do those new hm's that were introduced in qoa1, and that warrior will go in there and fail to tank those dungeons due to whatever the reason is.

I've been told that the reasons warriors have such a hard time in these new hm's is because of aoes that hit everything around the boss. I've also been told that a warrior MIGHT be able to tank it, if absolutely everything went right, but would be unable to keep the boss still enough, or even see what it's doing after its mechanics under 35% kick in, for the dps to keep up in the dps race.

So in other words, even if you're really really good and can actually tank it and not die, you're still kinda screwed.

It is entirely possible for warriors to tank the hard mode lvl 60 instances. The bosses spend plenty of time moving around no matter who is tanking. It may be more difficult for everyone involved, but with a good group it can be done.

My primary concern is that currently, I'm the main tank for my guild. I'm one of only 2 tanks in the guild at all. This problem isn't just going to affect me, but every member of my guild who groups with me, when we don't have a full 5 member group ready to go.

I don't want to go through half a dungeon as the tank (either taking the time to form the group through chat on my own, or starting with a full team of guildies) then have one player drop, and not be able to conveniently replace that player through the LFD tool because our tank is a Warrior. Say your healer disconnects, or has to leave. I doubt it's even possible to queue in the LFD tool as 4 DPS, so you're pretty well hooped.

And you know what? Maybe it is a lot of work to add in this function to the LFD tool (though I suspect it would be mind-numbingly simple for a professional programmer to add in a single button to an existing framework.) That doesn't really matter. We're talking about allowing a class to do what it's intended to do, here. We're talking about giving the Warrior the ability to do what's written right in it's class description. There is currently a hybrid tax in TERA. Warriors are a hybrid class, and in this case that means they don't truly excel at either role, by design. If the devs then limit us to only one of those roles, and we are purposefully designed so we don't excel at it, what we're left with is a broken class. IMO, that is the definition of a "high priority" issue.

What I hope is that EME pushes to bring part 2 of the QoA patch to NA-TERA quickly. I realize EME has to wait on Bluehole on these types of issues, but what they can do is give Warriors their increased tanking viability, and hopefully the ability to queue as tanks along with it, sooner rather than later. My hope is that EME makes an effort to release the changes to the Warrior class as soon as those changes hit KTERA, even if they don't implement the entire QoA pt.2 patch until later. That would show us that they take this issue seriously.

-Travail.

Parts of nalfens guide remain from when 58 was the cap. I can agree that warriors can tank everything up to 58 and including the 60 normals, but NO WARRIOR IN EXISTENCE CAN COMMENT ON THE LEVEL 60 HARD MODES. They simply cannot queue for them. People blindly follow Nalfens guide and lay on it word for word when a lot of the information is out dated. He made the guide when 58 was cap, and the 60 cap was only introduced in the last month.

I sent a pm to him on the subject and he said he's holding off on updating it until he hits 60 cap on NA to have more relevant information for the NA version.

Quote: Travail on 04/15/2012, 12:23 PM

The only thing stopping the Warrior from being a "tank" is the artificial restriction that does not allow them to queue as tanks through the LFD tool. This will prevent you from actually signing up as a tank, and so... you aren't really a tank, then, are you? When you're forced to queue as DPS in the LFD tool, that means you have to gear yourself, and spec yourself, for DPS. Which will make you a sub-par tank when you attempt to fulfill that role. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

There are three reasons why "most" Warriors might not be good tanks in TERA, and none of them have anything to do with the mechanics of the class.

This is absolutely wrong. The game mechanics in hard mode, level 60 dungeons heavily punish evasion tanks. Korean Tera did not make Warriors a DPS class in the LFD tool just on a whim. Please let me emphasize this. Game mechanics heavily disadvantage and punish warrior tanks in hard mode. The dungeons that have been released in NA closed betas don't even scratch the surface of how dungeons operate in end-game.

I play a healer in Korean Tera. Please let me give you three reasons why I would prefer a lancer tank -- hands down -- no matter how skilled the Warrior.

(1) Hard modes rely heavily on positioning. Whether it's rows of tree-mobs running through and one-shotting you, or volleys of red balls shooting at you in criss-crossing patterns, the margin for error is very, very small. Whereas a Lancer can stand, block, and have a minimum of movement, an evasion tank by nature must move to survive. A tank that hops back and forth + positional mechanics with tiny margins for error = a horrible experience, if not immediate, one-shot death.

Tera, the way that it is currently designed, heavily punishes any encounter in which the mob (boss) is moved constantly, or is spun about like a top.

An exceptionally great player can probably do it. This, however, is likely 1% of the population.

(2) DPS suffers with constant movement. Let's say that you are the 1% of the population, and are an incredible master at landing in the perfect spot each time you dodge. You must also have exceptional DPS. This isn't just a simple matter of aiming. Melee DPS have bonuses for attacking the back. They also have to watch out for spins, swipes, AOEs. Constant movement of the boss creates that much variance. Time spent trying to reposition and/or catch up is lost DPS.

This also brings us to the last point.

(3) Your healers must be patient, and again, exceptional to deal with evasion tanks. The same positional issues your melee DPS will run into will also plague your healer. Your DPS will likely take more damage from the constant movement / repositioning of where the boss is facing. Your healer will not only have to heal more, but also watch the boss more. One-shot mechanics pervade.

In short -- even if an extremely skilled Warrior can tank hard-modes, it will always be at an extraordinarily high cost of efficiency. It will tax your healer. It will tax your DPS. A lancer can sit there and block, and achieve far greater results. For a warrior to tank hard mode 60 dungeons, you not only need an exceptional warrior, but also top-notch DPS and a superb healer.

At some point, you have to sit back and consider whether you'd like to go up two floors by taking the elevator, or by scaling the walls outside. Both will get you to your objective. One, however, is far, far less efficient.

And please let me close by saying that I completely agree with you in that I wish this weren't so. I sincerely hope that they somehow make warriors a viable tank. En Masse has been wonderful so far in listening to feedback. I'm just not sure how they can do so without mimicking the Lancer's stay-in-position block mechanic, but I'm cautiously optimistic. In the meantime, however, bringing a Lancer for hard-modes is the only sensible thing to do.

Quote: Loganx1121 on 04/13/2012, 02:43 PM

Since I just had a debate with someone about this who seemed to think all lancers do is hold right click to block constantly and then spam challenging shout I figured I'd pose a question here.

I've heard some people say that they prefer warriors to tank from an aggro aspect because they seem to hold aggro better than lancers. After playing a lancer to cap in CBT 5 I never had any issues with aggro. On the other side to this, I've heard dps/healers say they prefer lancers because of positioning. A lancer is more stationary so the dps doesn't have to move as much and can stay situated at the back of the boss where they want to be, and healers have an easier time targetting the lancers for heals because we're not jumping around like a jackrabbit.

So basically my question is what have you experienced in your play time? Anyone do any CR runs with warriors/lancers or both? How much did the warrior having to dodge around constantly effect the positioning of the dps and did it make the healers job harder? Overall, which one did you think provided a smoother run or boss fight experience between the two?

A) Lancers cannot be pulled off by just holding right click to block. People love to oversimplify their perceptions of other classes when it makes them feel superior since they are playing a "harder" class. One thing I've learned from playing MMOs over a decade is that there are certain people that love to play down everything in a show of machismo. You can generally recognize this when you hear the phase "It's easy, all you have to do is..." used often.

Anyways, avoiding damage is more straightforward for a Lancer than a warrior, yes. Tanking is still far from easy compared to just about any other MMO out there. For other MMOs, tanking is about threat rotation, positioning, and a few survival cooldowns, all of which can be controlled by staring primarily at your UI. In Tera, you don't deal with the UI as much as with looking directly at the boss and threat/rotation/position/cooldowns must be juggled at the same time as actively defending against attack.

Is a warrior harder to tank with than a Lancer? Yes, but a Lancer still has tons to deal with and can easily wipe the group with a small mistake.

As for aggro, I didn't see any issues with it in the CB. The only time I really had a boss get pulled was when I was using PvP glyphs and even then I could just taunt a bit more often to compensate.

Also, in terms of which tank is easier on a group, a Lancer is better since they keep the boss in place more and bring more tools to reduce group damage such as their block mechanic which protects people behind them. However, a good warrior will still keep a boss relatively stable and shouldn't be jumping around like a jack rabbit too much. They can do this by positioning themselves slightly offcenter of the boss and by using attack animations that move them out of harms way, then moving back to their previous position before the boss moves much. There are some good videos out there that show how this is done if you're curious.

Quote: Gangaloo on 04/14/2012, 04:14 AM

If you read Nalfen's Warrior guide he says that he's never been unable to tank any of the Tera content. He does feel that in comparison to Lancers, Warriors are sub par at tanking.

Nalfen's guide was written when 58 was the cap. Things have changed as far as tanking goes for a warrior.



The reason people haven't given straight answers as to what a warrior can and can't do in the 60 dungeons is because no one has much experience doing it. We can't queue as tanks anymore, so even leveling up you're going to have to run with a premade if you want to tank. This isn't because we don't want to, its because BHS doesn't WANT us to until we get looked at in argons pt 2. From that standpoint I agree that tanking as a warrior is difficult, so at least they're doing what they can to keep us from getting the hate in the mean time. It's still not like we CAN'T do it, it'll just garner hate from the masses because 90% won't be able to.

In terms of people preferring lancer over warrior, every group I've tanked for the healer and the DPS prefer me over a lancer if no one in my party is a [filtered] nugget and attacks the boss before I'm even in the room.