Well allow me to refresh your memory yet again from the last page, post #160 by yourself:

"And yet no one labelled you -.- You're the one doing all the labeling on your own.

Whatever, I just hope the rest of your guild isn't as immature and childish as you."

I did not even mention zerg guilds when I was questioning you on this and showing you evidence that you yourself gave the label in post #135, something that you cannot deny and have conveniently not responded to. You just ignore the point and deflect with a personal attack calling anyone who questions you mad. So according to your last post #162 people who post in this thread are either mad or spamming. That's one way to fight against hard evidence that you are not what you claim to be I suppose.

Actually Manineboi I believe you yourself gave the label in post #135:

"You know, I don't get where all the hate for Enclave is coming from. Is it just because the people from Terable are butthurt?"

How soon you conveniently forget. Perhaps someone else should speak for your guild? It is a good thing this is only a video game as a certain cultural secretary is facing perjury charges for inconsistent testimony.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/may/31/leveson-hunt-scoundrel-or-fool

Poor Mr Jeremy Hunt. Well not really as he knowingly did perjure himself as did yourself, only the term doesn't really apply outside of a courtroom so you should be ok.

So in post #143 Daedryn said:

"Obviously, not everyone believes that zerg guilds exist. The AZA does and we could be wrong. But in case we're not, we've banded together to make sure that when they get into office, we're there to fight for what we believe. That's our stance and it's way more simple than any of you would like to make it out to be"

Emphasis in that you specifically said that you could be wrong. Exactly how many times have you said these "zerg guilds" exist in this thread? Nearly every post made by Enclave no? Classic back peddling when you have been caught out.

While you have made a straw man attack, I think it is bit of a stretch to assume everyone criticising Enclave is from one guild. That seems... unlikely to say the least. It's also irrelevant to any debating position. Me? I'm as casual a player as they come and hardly have time to even level but I do greatly enjoy politics so here I am.

Dradryn also said in post #151 to someone else that:

"I find it funny that you like to point out that you don't see any other guilds calling our alliance out on anything. Did it occur to you that's because we haven't done anything they can call out? The one and only thing that anyone has been able to accuse us of is calling them out for their own tactics. If that's all they've got, I can see why they're pissed. What's strange is, since we never mentioned any names, there's no reason for them to assume we're talking about them UNLESS they're guilty of what we're talking about. So what does that tell you. Why be defensive if it doesn't apply to you?"

As has been said before this is literally McCarythism anti communist paranoia in another form. It's applied to a gamining community of all things but that doesn't stop you declaring that anyone who isn't with you must therefore be against you. It has also been shown that Enclave did do these things. With links and quotes. What you have done is - to use a metaphor - is declared yourself against jewel thieves, then robbed a jewelry store. You are putting on the pearl necklace while the policeman approaches and saying "Hello officer I have no idea what happened here, I never touched any jewels".

Oh and one more quote from post #151:

"Lastly, I am having fun playing the game and not pretending it's real life. I'm not tarring and feathering anyone. Why do you keep beating this dead horse? This is the kind of thing that eventually turns into trolling. Is that where you're going with this? If so, tell me now, so I can stop answering you as though you actually care to hear a real answer."

I'm pretty sure the community saw it as tarring and feathering when statements like "You know who you are" are made and when multiple people press for names and supporting information the only responses were to refuse to provide any information. Of course you cannot provide said information if it does not exist which is what appears to be have been the case all along.

That said instead of denials, deflections and responding angrily to questions why not thank people for their questions and give answers that expand on your core principles to promote yourselves? Although I guess that when your actions contradict your core values that you can't actually do that.

You understand the importance of core values to political discussions yes?

Oh and Marineb0i:

"Obviously someone doesn't know math. One guild = 300 members. Even if each person only had a second alt, that's 600 praise per day from just self-praising. You don't need to praise each other to reach your numbers. Funny how all I did was try to make a point on how stupid this mudslinging is, and yet you get so defensive. -.-"

I think from memory the highest praise guilds have roughly 4-6k praise. This game has been out for about a month so 600 praise a day should be 18000. I don't think I've seen any guild like that. I'd be pretty impressed if I did though.

Well if you prefer to deflect questions and not answer key talking points yet again by going down the semantics path, I established back on page 4, post #39, that the definitions being used by Enclave members are not any commonly accepted definitions. So you may try and move the goalposts if you like, but you cannot be against something without that "something" being clearly defined.

Back in post #35, your own officer Jellad said:

"Zerg Tactics, and what they mean to us.

When I start a new toon, land on the platform, and get 3 invites before I even walk away from the platform, thats zerging. When I hear guilds admit that they remove people who have been off for 2 days to keep their roster full of active members, thats zerging. When I hear guilds openly admit that they plan on running the elections so that they can get control of all the zones they can and jack up prices, remove helpful NPC's and overcharge for flying, thats zerging."

Even their definition is different to yours. So I don't think you can argue that you are not a "zerg guild" because of your recruiting intent since your own guild's definition of that term keeps changing. Indeed your officer makes no distinction as to the recruitment intent, only that it occurs. It was also never established that any guilds actually made such claims despite requests made for names or evidence.

By your own personal definition zerging is recruiting people to vote and win. In the instance I mentioned your guild recruited those people solely through a vanarch recruiting drive which involved spamming chat channels. So... that is what you meant correct? You have admitted it.

You say "this is how elections work" and you are correct, it frequently is. But it is still against the stated core values of Enclave. Just another "inconsistency" perhaps, yes? What is unacceptable for the gander is good for the goose, one might say.

You know throughout this thread many people have asked questions and never received straight answers, only dismissive denials and attacks. Often accompanied by mocking laughter and derogatory comments. What sort of community does your guild have towards its members that this in the norm? It does not sound like a healthy long term environment for socialisation.

Was this why certain groups from your guild left? I mean a strong healthy community that promotes positive attitudes and has a familial spirit should not splinter, especially since your guild is not at capacity.

I think that your edited post still does not address the key issue of why Enclave's core values are not being followed, Marineb0i. You initially wished to refute my assertion and were then provided additional evidence which you ignored. Everything is then claimed to be nonsense. That is your decision of course.

Now I am not an American citizen but if I were I would buy you membership in the GOP. From what I read I think you would make an excellent Romney supporter.

http://www.examiner.com/article/mitt-romney-denies-seeing-ad-that-was-approved-by-him-video

This is post #18 in this thread posted by your guild leader, made in response to someone else:

"You really don't know what the term zerging means? I'm tempted to think you're just trolling, because it's pretty obvious, and we've explained it in many different threads. But just in case you legitimately don't understand... We're against spam recruiting just to fill the guild so they can have enough votes to take over all the provinces. Some GMs of the zerg guilds have even pronounced their intention to take over everything and jack up the taxes and remove the helpful NPCs just for the sake of trolling. That's what we're against. We're for responsible recruiting. You know, interviewing people to make sure they fit the goals and ideals of your guild, not just taking every single person who walks into the Island of Dawn. And no, it's not mudslinging. Since you don't understand the definition, you shouldn't use it."

It specifically says spam recruiting, which is what occurred yes? Your guild rode out and recruited 8 people they did not know by spamming local, area and LFG chat. Now I don't have a problem at all with you doing this but I think it flies in opposition to Enclave's core values as your alliance is stated to be the "anti zerg alliance", or AZA. Did 8 responsible interviews take place during this ride? Unlikely as I would imagine interviews would take some time to conduct.

I mean all this is fine to do as such but it just goes against what your guild stands for as claimed by your leader and other Enclave members who have spoken in this thread.

Then it appears doing it once was not enough and your leader made a post several hours ago (7 exactly at time of writing) about how you are going to do it again. Once more that's a perfectly fine course of action but it contradicts your stated values once again.

The status of your join button and why you have still not hit 300 players despite these support and recruitment drives is not something I think we are talking about.

I just wonder that since your core values are openly not being followed what else should people think?

I read this and thought "area/LFG spam?" and looked at Enclave's guild website.

http://tera-enclave.enjin.com/

So on their front page is a animated .gif montage of the 8-12 Enclave members who ran around various regions on Dragonfall spamming recruitment in the chat channels. "Zendyr" even made a post about how it got them 8 new members.

So there you have it. The "anti zerg guild" going around spamming chat channels and doing zerg recruiting, according to their own peculiar definition of that term.

How shameless and two faced, especially after everything they claimed.

Apparently asking for evidence to support assertions made by Enclave is now "trolling".

Are you absolutely sure you aren't trolling the community? Your statements are obviously being disruptive to people and their enjoyment of the game. You keep citing "many people" but never say whom. Nobody here has seen them. Your official statements read like personal attacks on other guilds or persons with names deleted. Still no evidence either.

"Not at all, I had planned to go to bed but some guildies wanted to run dungeons, so I stayed up to help them, and I'm still up, much to my chagrin. It took me a while to respond because I was fighting bosses. I do find it hysterical though that out of all the points I made, the only thing you can think of to refute is the fact that I said I was going to go to bed and I didn't end up doing that. The fact that I continued to respond is obvious proof that I wasn't trying to be evasive, so now you're just being ridiculous and grasping at straws."

You are being evasive because you never answer a direct question from anyone or provide evidence. You have also started accusing everyone in this thread who is asking of trolling. People are only asking for proof and you laugh at them? That is typical behavior of a troll and I am extremely disappointed that you fail to represent the ideals you claimed to hold.

"It doesn't really matter whether any one of you believes zerg guilds exist or not, and it doesn't matter if you think I'm a griefer, which I'm not. Trust me, I could think of a lot better things to do with my time than troll people. And I find it amusing that anyone is accusing me of griefing when all I was doing was supporting Enclave in this thread, and a few trolls decided to nitpick about whether zerg guilds actually exist or not, when obviously, the term wouldn't even exist if there weren't such a thing. It's not like they're mythical creatures. "

You have not been supporting your guild, instead you have been actively attacking people asking questions and and the community in general by making unsupported accusations. In what way is this amusing to you? You gain amusement by causing alarm and disruption to people, then refusing to expand on details when asked? You simply evade every question and try to deflect onto a new topic. Then you thank your own guild. Do you realise how that comes across? Of course. You have been trolling us and laughing while while we ask you questions.

And no Bashton he won't answer you, me or anyone else. I think that we may have found a troll guild. It's mentioned in the thread title and I am sorry, I thought better of Enclave and I guess I was mistaken.

I'm sorry you're having trouble sleeping Daedrynn:

"I'm going to bed now. I wish you all good luck in the elections." - 11:16pm

Your last post was at 02:59am.

Is this issue keeping you up at night or were you being evasive to everyone's questions when you left? I'm very sorry to come to this conclusion but it looks like Bashton might be right about this all being a fabrication. I sincerely hope you were not deliberately misleading the community and being a "griefer" guild when you in fact claimed to be against such reprehensible guilds.

This is the only definition of zerging I could find using google that pertains to MMOs.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=zerging

"3. zerging
In MMORPGs, it is also the term of a person creating accounts solely for game-breaking purposes."

It doesn't match up with your description. You do state that guilds that reach out and recruit people are somehow doing wrong - how is that a bad thing? I find it pretty strange that anyone would try and forcibly recruit people, I hope that nobody does such a thing. Or that it's possible.

"1. The AZA will NEVER and does not condone the down talk, mud slinging, accusing or other defaming of other guilds, GM's or players. We do not appreciate this kind of behavior and if we catch any guilds openly accusing or causing problems, that is something I want to know about so I can address it."

The only guilds making these claims and accusations are your own, through statements such as this.

"2. As far as naming guilds that are using "Zerg" tactics: We are not going to call out or name guilds here, it is unnecessary and uncalled for. Zerg guilds, you know who you are, and I will address why we oppose you below."

But why not call them out? The community should know and players should not join a guild that will kick them.

"3. As far as bluffing goes, there is no bluff, there are Guilds who have openly admitted that if they get into the Vanarchy, that their plan is to completely greif players."

Ok now you simply must give examples here. Nobody can condone greifing and if any guilds are on here to grief then we all want to know about it.

"When I hear guilds admit that they remove people who have been off for 2 days to keep their roster full of active members, thats zerging. When I hear guilds openly admit that they plan on running the elections so that they can get control of all the zones they can and jack up prices, remove helpful NPC's and overcharge for flying, thats zerging."

You owe it to the community to name guilds that have stated this as their modus operandum. That sounds like awful behavior and I don't think anyone will stand for it. I mean, you really owe it to the community to share this information.