End game should start the minute you first start the game ... if you think end game and therefore the "real" game in an RPG starts at cap, then simply go and make a "hit cap" auto button.

Funnily enough ... the first game in almost a decade that has made me feel like the end game started straight away was GW2 ... and that's a game where, at least in part, you can automatically press button and hit cap!

I'm an old school EQ1 player that played almost 2 years and left 1 level shy of the cap. No game has recaptured what I felt then ... it was great, every day I logged in I felt like was end game and I experienced the vast majority of the game 95%+ of the content (you didn't need to be at cap to be useful or allowed in raids). Too many games these days simply have wasted content ... yes you might get to end game super quick but in the process you've skipped half the content of a game (and I'm talking about volume of made content not simply what someone rates as "worthwhile" content i.e. max level dungeons).

Yes TERA would benefit from being more difficult/challenging, though the first 20 or so levels would really need to be re-vamped ... boring! No it won't happen because today's gamer either simply wants to get to cap asap ... because that's when the game really starts (or ends ;))! ... or they want a game that is flashy and cool, but ultimately not really that hard ... dieing isn't cool man!

TERA isn't hard just for the record ... the combat is cool, just not challenging ... and before you argue realise that even TERA advertises this by saying you can do dungeons with less characters to make it hard if you want ... i.e. the "standard" mode is easy (you can't tell I don't like artificial difficulty i.e. solo multiple mobs just to make it hard).

Whatever you say about the Daish is irrelevant. There is obviously a lot of people (and I won't use the term fanboi) who are simply more interested in trash talking someone than objectively discussing the topic. it's a poor sign of the current TERA community.

The simple fact is that the prologue was a band-aid solution to the problem of "a lack-lustre early leveling experience" into TERA (not verbatim but the general idea is the same was what EnMasse themselves actually posted). It was an attempt to stop people who got bored before level 20 leaving, because in all honesty (and most of even the fanboi's seem to agree) the first 20 levels of TERA is quite mundane to say the least. In that sense, the prologue is certainly a big fail. It did nothing to change the fact that the first 20 levels are still mundane and simply hoped that some people would be "wowed" enough to stick out the first 20 levels who otherwise would not have. Epic fail.

i played the TERA beta weekends. I thought the prologue was bad. I was hoping for something better, but it was rushed, poorly explained and ultimately gave little to no benefit, either from a in-game or out-of-game point of view. You still have to learn the game by doing the first 20 levels.

If you want to see a good prologue into a game that doubles as a learning experience, just look at GW2. I played the BWE and it had me hooked from level 1 (when you happen to fight your first BAM no less!).

Peace.

Quote: crazycanuk on 04/10/2012, 06:01 AM - view
What makes me laugh is this and many other posts like it try to explain that casual play-style is the way to go ...

You made lvl 28 in 2 and a half days and you think that's slow, a good example of casual play-style, of taking the time to smell the roses???? Now that boggles the mind, especially because people like this are the ones still saying the level speed is fine ...

Quote: KenpachiZaraki on 04/10/2012, 08:00 AM - view
+1

I still can't believe there are people out there who don't think TERA is already in Ezmode ... it is currently the only thing stopping me, i can see myself getting too bored too quickly and easily.

Quote: Sakubo on 04/09/2012, 10:17 AM - view
Totally agree with you, that's the funny thing about sooooo many post on this and many other MMO forums. People making statements that clearly show that have very little idea about MMO's in general. Yeah players shop totally unique to TERA ... the OP lost me there :).

In all honesty, TERA has nothing unique. Even the combat has been done before. TERA has simply put together a nice little package, that's all. TERA is nothing new, it's just been wrapped up in nice shiny paper, that's good for some, and I see the appeal (though it's not for me, too generic and small in all honesty).

Some simple things ...

The definition of grind has changed ... anyone who has played real MMORPG's (not Diablo) more than 8-10 years ago unequivocally knows this. It's an immutable fact.

The definition of an MMORPG (or RPG for that matter) has changed ... anyone who has played PnP, MUD's, etc knows this. RPG's are about PROGRESSION ... classic example, PnP DnD was not about what you did at 20, it was about experience content, adventures and progressing ... once you hit 20 it was more or less over.

A large portion of the argument simply revolves around disputes of these two facts. People who truly want an RPG exprience, whether casual or hardcore in their play hours, truly don't care for the time it takes to progress, as long as the content is there (and it seems TERA is part way there) time to level should NOT matter.

The time to level only matters to those people who actually care about how long it takes to level (yes, I am aware that it sounds rediculous, but it's true). TERA is not grindy, if you find it grindy it's because you are actively missing content in an attempt to make the leveling "go quicker", as has been disucssed many times, by missing side quests and simply grind you level quicker ... but then you're exposed to the grind (or what people think is a grind) ...

It's pretty simple ... if you experience all (or most at least) of the content of a game, you should not out level the game ... if you do it's too quick, simple.

Unfortunately (perhaps) TERA will do fine, much like the much maligned SWTOR. It certainly won't live up to the hype, but it will survive and make it's companies money. it won't be what it should have been, but then MMORPG gamers aren't what they should be any more either. Too many simply want an FPS style game with RPG type characters (hence the reason why a max-level button would actually be a big selling point to a game, even though true RPGer's would not use it).

Peace ... maybe I'll see you in TERA, maybe I won't ... but if I do, better be quick because TERA won't last long for me ... it's simply too quick.

As a side note, I am actually finding TERA currently less challenging and so too tedious that I'm running around in EQ2 (progression guild) and finding it more fun (even though arguably I'm grinding more ... it's just more challenging and so less tedious at the moment ...).

Part of the problem here (and like so many issues) is that we are not talking about 2 distinct groups ... the grinders, vs the non-grinders. We are talking about a much larger range of people (I guess it is in line with the post about the subjective matter of the topic).

There is no middle ground as there is no ground in the middle.

For those who want challenge over tedium ... at what point does someone consider something that is too challenging as tedious? Make a mob or dungeon that you need to be "skilled" to do/complete and the group of people who cannot complete it will call it tedious or a grind (I had to fight the guy 20 times to finally beat him, how tedious ...).

You cannot have progression without progression, you cannot have time pass without time passing. Grinds/tedium are inevitable to a certain extent. I guess the key is making it as fun as it can be (and maybe TERA is on track with the combat system).

The problem with TERA is that it is too easy and so for many of us it is tedious (though in no way is it grindy ... leveling is way toooo fast to be considered grindy). Too much of the game is on easy mode (most of the game is killing non-bams and not doing dungeons, at least time-wise) so that even though the combat is "fun" it doesn't take long before the content seems tedious ... grindy no, tedious yes.

Add more "challenge" in all aspects of the game (make normal mobs more like mini-bams is a good suggestion) and you'd be surprised how many more people are actually grinding more yet finding it less tedious :). And as a side benefit the leveling would be more natural (and slower).

Lol! You've got to be kidding me right? From super casual to ultra-uber casual ... how easy do you want this to be?

It's a step in the right direction I'll give you that, but a small one ... it's still largely a skill/key-bind/mash-fest ... you've just got to "point" yourself in the right direction first ...

Give me tactics, give me choices to make with actual consequences, give me the ability to modify my tactics on the fly ... whether it's tab target or point target, this is what I want ... TERA still felt a little bit too "dumbed" down ...