And I'm saying lets compared actual figures instead of pulling numbers out of our [filtered].
Those figures don't tell us anything, though. Drop by the call center at Verizon and ask them for statistics showing how many people call in with complaints or problems, and how many call in to say everything is working great. Bad news for Verizon, 100% of the calls are complaints or problems!
As I mentioned above, a better metric is how many users Verizon has, and how many have problems. Same with TERA Online. How many players are there, and how many refuse to play or will quit because the model changes? I guarantee it's a tiny percentage.
Just show them a picture of both before and after censorship and ask them which armor looks better. If the majority points out the old armors, then there we have it, old armors were better.
Best choice might be one of those with bellys covered, to make the changes the most obvious.
I guarantee that if you showed 100 adult American males two pictures of Elins, one with the panties showing and one without, all 100 would pick the non-panty version, even if they liked the other better. You'd have to set up an anonymous survey to get better results, and even then the panty fans would be nowhere near 50%.
What matters isn't the people who are unaffected, it's those who will complain about one vs those who will complain about the other.
I agree 100%. Where we differ is on the numbers in each group. I maintain that there are more people in the group who would be deterred by the old models than there are in the group that (A) know about the change at all and (B) are upset by it. Agree to disagree.
And if you're playing enough to ding 30 you can't hate the game that much. ;)
Um, no. This is what I would term the vocal minority fallacy if it was up to me to name fallacies. What matters is what the majority of people who care/complain/quit over it think. Having a majority over the clueless casuals who, as you agree, don't even notice this is going on, is unnecessary.
I'm not sure I understand. If fifty people hate the change and quit, and 100 people don't mind the change and join up, EME is on the right track. They will always go with what gives them the best shot at success. The real question is why anyone bought the game in the first place if they didn't like the product being sold.
Just out of curiosity, what level is your character, Crumplecorn?
That pretty much sounds like what we're measuring by counting forum threads. And even in the threads themselves (which are, I'l stop being rhetorical now, all anti-censorship), where are the hordes of pro-censorship people?
I really can't explain it any clearer. Complaints will always outweigh non-complaints in situations like this. I bet most casual players don't even know what was changed.
A better argument would be asking how many TERA players there are all together, and how many of them have complained that they can't see elin panties on the forums. If it's over 50%, you may have something. In reality I bet it's around 1%.
1) The ESRB has A LOT to do with this discussion as all major retailers REQUIRE an ESRB rating to sell a product.
2) It isn't the toning down that's the issue, it's the censoring of all basic mature themes and still marketing the game to mature audiences. It's like labeling Scream as R and replacing the killer's weapon with a rubber knife and having the victims be stuck in time out for the rest of the movie.
3) There is censorship as En Masse ISN'T Bluehole, they are a subsidiary and not the core company, they make independent changes to the game and seek approval for the final product; all texture modifications were done by En Masse (as is evident by the poor texture quality).
1) It really doesn't. Yes, major retailers require an ESRB rating. What I'm saying is that the rating is not in jeopardy. Much worse games still get an 'M', and I'm pretty confident that TERA would have gotten the same without the changes.
Now, I'm pretty new here, so could someone fill me in on how many threads there were complaining about the Elin costumes before they were changed, asking for censorship? To compare to the endless threads complaining about the changes that we've had since.
I WONDER WHICH THERE WERE MORE OF
That's not a reasonable measure because the game was never presented in both forms to players here.
Look at it this way. Take 100 people from a lucrative demographic, say adult males age 25 to 45. Show them a picture of an elin with the flowery panties showing, and one modeled as they are now. Then ask the people whether the change makes them more or less likely to play the game.
Then take 100 more people from the same group and ask them if this exact question: "Are you more or less likely to play TERA Online because of the changes made to the North American version?" The results would look something like this:
50% - "What is TERA Online?"
40% - "What did they change?"
5% - "More likely or don't care."
5% - "Less likely."
If the results from the first group finds more than 5 people agree with the change, they made the right call.
Lots of silly arguments in this thread. A few points:
- The ESRB has nothing to do with this discussion. Tons of games that are much worse (more violence, nudity, and language) than TERA and are still rated M.
- It's not toned down all that much. My mystic looks like she's wearing a prom dress in to battle. The Elins are still there, just modified slightly. And huge bouncing breasts are everywhere.
- There is no "censorship" going on here, really, as that implies outside forces suppressing what BHS/EME/Frogster/Whoever wants to do with the game. What we're talking about is adaptation. EME rightly decided to tone down some of the visuals in the game to appeal to the western audience. Their job is not to fulfill some artistic vision, it's to make money. They determined that the game would sell better here (North America) if they made a few changes, so they made them.
You can disagree with their reasoning, but look at it from their perspective. There are two groups of potential customers in play here: Those who think the visuals are unappealing for whatever reason, and those who are unhappy with the changes made. I'd be willing to be that the former group is vastly larger than the latter. It only makes sense to work to win them over.