These people couldn't be further from the truth while you can do all end game in i158 it can be very unforgiving in some fights as someone who recently moved to i161 the difference is marked and it all get that much easier . I can't imagine what a cakewalk the game must be in full VM
illusoire on 04/24/2013, 01:48 PM - view
Fair enough the reg modes dont and are pretty much pointless in doing and thus always unused.
The old hardmodes do drop t14 fodder. They also drop something else that sells for a very nice amount on the new servers. And I'm not talking about VM recipes. So they're still worth doing.
Fair enough the reg modes dont and are pretty much pointless in doing and thus always unused.
Esterases on 04/24/2013, 01:44 PM - view
I got your point you tried to mislead the thread that hey we can all make 15 man premades there is no problem~!!! This thread is about the inequality of gear in the normal BG that is a direct result of premades stacking the deck with all+12 conjuct players only and the lopsides farm fests it turns the BG into.
you tried to say hey it is not a problem we can all make premades of +12 conjunct players.... we all cant actually they wont join you unless you have +12 yourself to start with.
Teramonster on 04/24/2013, 01:37 PM
right but you should get the gist of his point. Me in victors I will not be able to make a premade bg raid of 14 others in vm/conjuct, and making a premade with 14 others in victors is pointless to adress the issue.
You should get the gist of MY point. Anyone can click a button or alternatively, /invite friends, guild, etc.. and make a group and queue for a BG. Even you, in all victors!
I am not mentioning gear at all. You, just like everyone here, is capable of making a group aka premade and queuing for a BG.
I got your point you tried to mislead the thread that hey we can all make 15 man premades there is no problem~!!! This thread is about the inequality of gear in the normal BG that is a direct result of premades stacking the deck with all+12 conjuct players only and the lopsides farm fests it turns the BG into.
you tried to say hey it is not a problem we can all make premades of +12 conjunct players.... we all cant actually they wont join you unless you have +12 yourself to start with.
PRoblem is what can you do once you hit level 60? Same theme over and over for most people nothing to do at level 60
Now that the nexus spews out gear (which is fine imho) we have this issue that now almost every dungeon but MCHM is almsot pointless to complete, specially many of the older level 60 dungeons. Yes Yes I know you can farm the od MES, or a lucky t14 drop (some no hope for a t14 drop). So none of those dungeons are being done, add in the fact you really have nothing you can do WHILE you try to find a group to do a dungeon run even if you did want to run FoK.
I think the game has reached the point that the older dungeons need a slight buff to be made slightly more difficult, and/or a slight modification to the loot table be addressed. So that atleast t14 fodder can drop from them.
What i am going for here is the fact variety = fun, but I also need some purpose for using the variety. I would love nothing more than to mix in FoK/BT/ETHM/KNHM/FOKHM/BTHM if I could get some gold t14 fodder out of them for my efforts, hell maybe even change for conjuct drops just something of use. alot of good content there that is essentially unused because the effort isnt worth the time.
This would at the same time open up and create alot more stuff to keep your average level 60's playing, the ones who are not ready for MC. Seems like win/win no?
Now that the nexus spews out gear (which is fine imho) we have this issue that now almost every dungeon but MCHM is almsot pointless to complete, specially many of the older level 60 dungeons. Yes Yes I know you can farm the od MES, or a lucky t14 drop (some no hope for a t14 drop). So none of those dungeons are being done, add in the fact you really have nothing you can do WHILE you try to find a group to do a dungeon run even if you did want to run FoK.
I think the game has reached the point that the older dungeons need a slight buff to be made slightly more difficult, and/or a slight modification to the loot table be addressed. So that atleast t14 fodder can drop from them.
What i am going for here is the fact variety = fun, but I also need some purpose for using the variety. I would love nothing more than to mix in FoK/BT/ETHM/KNHM/FOKHM/BTHM if I could get some gold t14 fodder out of them for my efforts, hell maybe even change for conjuct drops just something of use. alot of good content there that is essentially unused because the effort isnt worth the time.
This would at the same time open up and create alot more stuff to keep your average level 60's playing, the ones who are not ready for MC. Seems like win/win no?
Sofya on 04/24/2013, 12:53 PM - view
agreed nice little event, but i also agree it really isnt directly adressing the problems of this game.
EnMasse thanks so much for this alkahest/master enigmatic thing, I'm actually impressed, I've never seen a company listen to players as much as this one. Also please leave equalized battlegrounds, (I have full conjunct +12) but it's super fun and when I play the normal BG there are tons of premades I go against and geared people which makes fights last longer and more cool (Its actually bad when you completely stomp (because of their gear) the other team cause you know there won't be a match).
Or at least make a poll asking if there should be removed or not, I haven't hard any complaints of it since the release. (Just class qq but its usual)
Hoping for more good content!
agreed nice little event, but i also agree it really isnt directly adressing the problems of this game.
Esterases on 04/24/2013, 01:34 PM - view
right but you should get the gist of his point. Me in victors I will not be able to make a premade bg raid of 14 others in vm/conjuct, and making a premade with 14 others in victors is pointless to adress the issue.
Teramonster on 04/24/2013, 01:29 PMEsterases on 04/24/2013, 12:47 PMSlubber on 04/24/2013, 12:43 PMSenji on 04/24/2013, 12:36 PMTeramonster on 04/24/2013, 12:28 PMSenji on 04/24/2013, 12:26 PMThe build EME is receiving from Korea probably is predetermined weeks ago, and has EBGs turned off. We essentially beta tested them, they took feedback and data, and EME most likely does not have the ability to toggle it off and on.
you would think they have the ability to address premades in fraywind though. lets all be honest the premades in regular fraywind are to serve one purpose only, to incur easy mode to allow farming of weaker groups by inherent gear advantages.
If everyone makes a premade; there is no premade issue.
People without gear can't make premades.
Yes they can. I don't know why it's like a new concept to people but believe it or not, people do have friends.
Easy concept I am not sure why you are dodging the reality here. The advantage is not "premaking 15 people" it is in using premade to STACK THE DECK with people of superior gear. PEople dont say forming premade for BG open invites, they say premade for bg must have +12 conjunct/VM.
so making my own premade with 15 people in victors is not gonna change anything. People in conjuct hit peopel in victors for 90k, people in victor hit peopel in conjunct for 10k. Pretty predictable outcome in that situation lol. Not even getting into the amount healed etc....
I didn't say anything about equal or fair or superior premades. I was simply responding to Slubber's comment about not being "able" to make premades. Anyone can make a group - simple. Don't read too much into it. Reality = anyone can make a group aka "premade" before a BG queue is initialized.
right but you should get the gist of his point. Me in victors I will not be able to make a premade bg raid of 14 others in vm/conjuct, and making a premade with 14 others in victors is pointless to adress the issue.
Esterases on 04/24/2013, 12:47 PM - view
Easy concept I am not sure why you are dodging the reality here. The advantage is not "premaking 15 people" it is in using premade to STACK THE DECK with people of superior gear. PEople dont say forming premade for BG open invites, they say premade for bg must have +12 conjunct/VM.
so making my own premade with 15 people in victors is not gonna change anything. People in conjuct hit peopel in victors for 90k, people in victor hit peopel in conjunct for 10k. Pretty predictable outcome in that situation lol. Not even getting into the amount healed etc....
Slubber on 04/24/2013, 12:43 PMSenji on 04/24/2013, 12:36 PMTeramonster on 04/24/2013, 12:28 PMSenji on 04/24/2013, 12:26 PMThe build EME is receiving from Korea probably is predetermined weeks ago, and has EBGs turned off. We essentially beta tested them, they took feedback and data, and EME most likely does not have the ability to toggle it off and on.
you would think they have the ability to address premades in fraywind though. lets all be honest the premades in regular fraywind are to serve one purpose only, to incur easy mode to allow farming of weaker groups by inherent gear advantages.
If everyone makes a premade; there is no premade issue.
People without gear can't make premades.
Yes they can. I don't know why it's like a new concept to people but believe it or not, people do have friends.
Easy concept I am not sure why you are dodging the reality here. The advantage is not "premaking 15 people" it is in using premade to STACK THE DECK with people of superior gear. PEople dont say forming premade for BG open invites, they say premade for bg must have +12 conjunct/VM.
so making my own premade with 15 people in victors is not gonna change anything. People in conjuct hit peopel in victors for 90k, people in victor hit peopel in conjunct for 10k. Pretty predictable outcome in that situation lol. Not even getting into the amount healed etc....
Slubber on 04/24/2013, 12:49 PM - view
eh your only a liability because the other team is premade having all max gear, if they also had players without max gear it would tend to even itself out. That is my point that right people people essentially stack the deck with maxed gear premades to ensure EZ wins farming those without gear. There advantage isnt coming from 15 friends playing together, it is coming from 15 peopel in +12 conjuct vs 15 people with half or more of them in victors. Now if you took that same pool of players 22 in +12 conjuct and 8 in victors and randomly distribute them among 2 teams you are more likely to get a balanced match. I understand that those who currently exploit the system for EZ mode are not infavor of that but it is for the good of the game.
Senji on 04/24/2013, 12:46 PMSlubber on 04/24/2013, 12:43 PMSenji on 04/24/2013, 12:36 PMTeramonster on 04/24/2013, 12:28 PMSenji on 04/24/2013, 12:26 PMThe build EME is receiving from Korea probably is predetermined weeks ago, and has EBGs turned off. We essentially beta tested them, they took feedback and data, and EME most likely does not have the ability to toggle it off and on.
you would think they have the ability to address premades in fraywind though. lets all be honest the premades in regular fraywind are to serve one purpose only, to incur easy mode to allow farming of weaker groups by inherent gear advantages.
If everyone makes a premade; there is no premade issue.
People without gear can't make premades.
Sure they can. They put all their pvp gear/cruxes/glyphs/skillbar on, ask guild/friend list/server and invite whoever they want before queuing.
If youre not in full conjunct youre a liability, making a party of 5 people in fraywind or less isn't going to get you anywhere lol.
eh your only a liability because the other team is premade having all max gear, if they also had players without max gear it would tend to even itself out. That is my point that right people people essentially stack the deck with maxed gear premades to ensure EZ wins farming those without gear. There advantage isnt coming from 15 friends playing together, it is coming from 15 peopel in +12 conjuct vs 15 people with half or more of them in victors. Now if you took that same pool of players 22 in +12 conjuct and 8 in victors and randomly distribute them among 2 teams you are more likely to get a balanced match. I understand that those who currently exploit the system for EZ mode are not infavor of that but it is for the good of the game.
Inaruna on 04/24/2013, 12:35 PM - view
Honestly I have no idea what you are experiencing, but i have played immense numbers of ebg's on my sorc/zerk/warrior and i have NEVER been 1 shot. I have 60k hp (you use all the max hp crystals for a bg) I have been the victim of some pretty big crits say 45-50k which is a far cry from the 90k crits in the regular bg (hell even a lancer will crit me for 45k in the regular bg), but the biggest part is I also dish out that kind of dmg in return so I can knock out a 45k crit, in the regular bg i return dmg back to these maxed gear people in the range of 7-10k lol.
By the same token I have also survived for some incredibly long times with 3-4 people on me in the ebg.
Teramonster on 04/24/2013, 12:30 PMYep, killing people in Equalized just like regular battlegrounds, 1 shot. Honestly, it isn't that different from regural battlegrounds overall. Lets face it, people are bad regardless of if they have good gear or not. Sure it can help out the decent people who lack the gear and have a harder time normally but it doesn't really make that much of a difference in the long run.Inaruna on 04/24/2013, 12:28 PMFunny thing is, Equalized Battlegrounds aren't very equal.
sure they are. Like I said you still have the play the game and if you play poorly you should lose. If you miss every skill, position poorly, lack the ability to follow direction and take objectives with your team you are not an equal quality player and that is something no game can correct for and you should lose.
Also healers get shafted as far as their weapon goes.
Honestly I have no idea what you are experiencing, but i have played immense numbers of ebg's on my sorc/zerk/warrior and i have NEVER been 1 shot. I have 60k hp (you use all the max hp crystals for a bg) I have been the victim of some pretty big crits say 45-50k which is a far cry from the 90k crits in the regular bg (hell even a lancer will crit me for 45k in the regular bg), but the biggest part is I also dish out that kind of dmg in return so I can knock out a 45k crit, in the regular bg i return dmg back to these maxed gear people in the range of 7-10k lol.
By the same token I have also survived for some incredibly long times with 3-4 people on me in the ebg.
Soryon on 04/24/2013, 12:33 PM - view
IT doesnt matter because it is teh same issue for both teams, hence equal. Stop crying about things that are irrelvant to "equalized" BG. Point if you will not be playing against people that have inherently superior gear.
Trust me if you have never fought with victors vs +12 conjunct you have no idea about balanced.
Teramonster on 04/24/2013, 12:30 PMInaruna on 04/24/2013, 12:28 PMFunny thing is, Equalized Battlegrounds aren't very equal.
sure they are.
No they arent. Stupid gear rolls benefit some classes and hurt others.
IT doesnt matter because it is teh same issue for both teams, hence equal. Stop crying about things that are irrelvant to "equalized" BG. Point if you will not be playing against people that have inherently superior gear.
Trust me if you have never fought with victors vs +12 conjunct you have no idea about balanced.